Pearl Lam (林明珠): Welcome to the Pearl Lam Podcast where we explore creativity, culture and people who are shaping the society in a meaningful way. Today I have Harry Lee. He’s a very dear friend of mine. He’s also the founder and artistic director of Hong Kong Choral Project. What makes Harry’s work particularly remarkable is that the students in his choirs come from one of the most underprivileged communities in Hong Kong. Through music, he gives these young people confidence, discipline, and a sense of belongings. Harry, my dear friend, I’m very happy that we’re sitting together and we are talking. Okay, I want to start about your obsession with music. I remember when I first met you, you were in a hotel working, and all of a sudden you went and studied opera singing. And then you start giving concert on opera singing. And then. And also you have forgotten Hong Kong for over 20 years. And when you return, you started this Hong Kong Choral Project. So was music something of your obsession since you were young?
Harry Lee: Yes.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Since you were a baby?
Harry Lee: No, about teenage years.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): How did you learn about opera? I mean, why isn’t Chinese opera?
Harry Lee: I was living in the US and the summers are very long, and then we have to occupy ourselves. Unlike my brothers, I cannot play sports all day long. So. I’ve always sang. And so I.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): You always sang? You mean that you are choir boys? Yes, when you were in Hong Kong.
Harry Lee: And so my aunt, who was my guardian at the time, got the idea I should take some singing lessons. My first experience with the opera took place at the Brevard Festival in the mountains of North Carolina.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So why didn’t you sing Chinese opera then?
Harry Lee: Because I had no. I had no exposure to that at that point. And I just thought the first time I heard this, I just couldn’t believe human beings could make noise like this.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Noise or voice?
Harry Lee: It is noise. If it is just a bunch of beautiful or unpleasant sounds. But on top of this noise comes emotion.
Harry Lee: And the combination makes this very, very unique.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So, did you continue with the singing lessons or do you stop? Well, I went to university.
Harry Lee: I didn’t really have singing lessons till I was about 18. Because, you know, for men, the voice has to change first.
Harry Lee: And music is something horribly important to me. Because during the best and the worst of times, it has always been with me.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Music accompany you all the time?
Harry Lee: Yes. In my daily life, I’m never bored. Because at any given moment, music will be playing in my head. In fact, I made a joke to a friend one time. Growing up, music was my cocaine. It helped me through everything.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So why did you study music in your university?
Harry Lee: Because my father was so wonderful. I decided not to play the rebellious son. So I did.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Oh, yeah. You are the eldest son as well?
Harry Lee: Yes. So I decided to go along and do what I believe he wanted me to do.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Hotel management.
Harry Lee: In the end, he wanted us to be ourselves.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): How wonderful.
Harry Lee: So I thought at that time, to please him, I will go into business. But I don’t regret the hotel experience.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): I think it’s great. I think it’s great because the other thing about you is you love people. You are a great social connector.
Harry Lee: Our lives are made much more multifaceted by knowing and being in touch with people from all walks of life, of course. So obviously I have a great love for people.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So then you start working in the hotel and then all of a sudden you decided that’s it?
Harry Lee: No, it was actually after university. I started working in New York. Through a very dear friend. I met a lady by the name of Uta Graf who transformed my life.
Harry Lee: She was my first singing teacher.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): And then you went back to learn singing?
Harry Lee: Yes, this was in New York. I was lucky and not so lucky. She was by then already very old. So I only get to be with her for one and a half years. But those one and a half years were. I cannot explain to you. It was so transformational.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): When you say transformational, what do you exactly mean? So you wonder. Your singing lessons and the storeys that she tells you must be very aspirational.
Harry Lee: Yes, they are. The musical aspect. And then there was the humanistic aspect.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So please share some humanistic aspect.
Harry Lee: She helped me realise what my life can be.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Wow. Wow. Okay. Impressive.
Harry Lee: So for this I will forever be grateful. And not just her. Eventually. I met Virginia Zeani at Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So you went for your second music teacher? Singing teacher.
Harry Lee: After she passed away. I studied for a very short time in New York. And one day I was in a CD shop in Washington D.C. and I know the name of Virginia Zeani. So I decided to buy her CD. I played. I still remember it was I puritani of Bellini. She sang maybe three phrases. And I thought to myself, I must study with this woman. This woman was unbelievable.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So you wrote to her?
Harry Lee: I was in a music summer school for singing in Tel Aviv, Israel.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): You went to Israel?
Harry Lee: Yes. She was a teacher there and we had some conversation. I didn’t study with her that summer. She asked to borrow a book from me. And when she returned the book, she put inside all her contact information so I can contact her. At that time it was a little embarrassing because she was a friend of my then teacher. So I have to divorce my own teacher in order to go to her.
Harry Lee: It took about nine months, but I eventually made myself to Bloomington, Indiana.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Oh, she. You actually left New York to go to? WOW! You are determined?
Harry Lee: Yes.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): And then when you start learning with her, were you completely.
Harry Lee: Let’s put it this way. Uta Graf, the first teacher, taught me about dedication to music. The first thing she told me was, for the rest of your life, you are going to serve music, not the other way around. True artist serves the medium they are doing.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): I like that!
Harry Lee: And so I will never forget that. And because I took so much from these two great ladies when I got the chance, I want to share what was given to me with the others.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Of course.
Harry Lee: So in 2014, I came back to Hong Kong.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): You gave a concert, right?
Harry Lee: Oh, but the concert was in the 1990s, in the 2000s. By then I pretty much stopped singing. But music was still a very huge part of my life.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Of course. And you were actually, you know, not just a huge part You were actually also working for the Met Opera.
Harry Lee: Well, I was. I have. Well, I was on their board in different capacities for 31 years.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Wow.
Harry Lee: I left them in 2021.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So you were actually. I told you, obsession with music. Obsession. And also trying to help and support.
Harry Lee: Yes. I think it was a two way street. My association with the Met opened all doors for me all around the world.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Of course.
Harry Lee: And it was wonderful to be able to share something one loves so much with other people.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah. Other people who have the same passion.
Harry Lee: Exactly.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah.
Harry Lee: But back to the 2014, I met another very wise friend. I said, look at the world. Most people are morally bankrupt. I would like to teach the young generation about compassion, love and just being a good human being. Because a civilised society should be consisted of other civilised individuals. And so this wise man told me, you can only teach them through beautiful things, music, art. And I thought, well, why not? And at the beginning, I really had no plan. I decided I’ll take one step at a time.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): But at the time, had you moved back to Hong Kong yet?
Harry Lee: Yes.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): You have already moved back to Hong Kong. This is after 20 years of disappearance.
Harry Lee: Well, more than 20 years,
Pearl Lam (林明珠): I remember when I used to talk, speak to you, I cannot go back to Hong Kong. I cannot go back to Hong Kong. I don’t want to go back to Hong Kong. And all of a sudden you’re back to Hong Kong and you didn’t even want to move out of Hong Kong?
Harry Lee: Well, ironically, 2019 changed all this.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah, I think so.
Harry Lee: Until 2019, I couldn’t wait to leave Hong Kong. But I witnessed the horror of 2019 and I thought to myself, well, I can’t be so selfish. Everything that is wonderful in my life came because of Hong Kong. So let’s try to see in my humble way, what I can do for Hong Kong. This was where at the same time, you know, between 2019 and 2023, we had a horrible time.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yes.
Harry Lee: But.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yes, the COVID is really…
Harry Lee: The Hong Kong Choral Project. Those were the years.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): When did you. When do you find founded Hong Kong Coral Project?
Harry Lee: 2014.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): 2014.
Harry Lee: We started with 19 students.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Can you start telling us after the 2014 you decided because you were inspired to give it back to a younger generation, Right? But why going to Tin Shui Wai? You know, because this is really one of the worst underprivileged an area. And we were always told that the schools there are filled with rascals and uncontrollable young people, is very, very rough, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And the next thing I heard is Harry Lee is doing a project at Tin Shui Wai.
Harry Lee: You know, at that time, it was the part of Hong Kong that needed the most help. So we were also very lucky to be connected with one of the primary schools.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): How?
Harry Lee: Since I have never.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): How do you know even about Tin Shui Wai.
Harry Lee: Wait, you’re not even from Hong Kong. It is through this organisation called the Hong Kong Council for Social Services. They connected me to this school and we started with 19 students. Right now in 2026, we have 185 students.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): I love it.
Harry Lee: And 2026 will be a very exciting year because by September 2026. We are going to move into a new district. We are going to move to Kwun Tong.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Why Kwun Tong?
Harry Lee: It’s another area we’ve identified that perhaps can accommodate our programme. Two new schools have signed up. And so we shall see in our next step what we can do for the children.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Because I remember, I think I went to one of your performance. And these little kids are so cute. Uncle Harry. Uncle Harry.
Harry Lee: Well, you saw the adorable side.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah, of course. I only see the adorable side.
Harry Lee: You haven’t seen the side of them. We are about to strangle them.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Oh, I haven’t seen that. It’s so sweet turning out. Uncle Harry. Uncle Harry.
Harry Lee: But you know, I was a very, very naughty child. So I know all the tricks they have.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So let’s start. Okay. 214, You went to talk to the school and you got your 18 student.
Harry Lee: 19.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): 19 Student. So then you give them lessons. Who was teaching them? You were teaching them.
Harry Lee: We were very, very fortunate to partner with an organisation called Festive Chamber. And the music director of Festive Chamber is one of Hong Kong’s most experienced music educator, especially in choir singing, Mrs. Betty Tham. She helped put together the whole programme. She is quite unique. She found the tutors to teach the students. But at the same time she planned the entire curriculum. And she also co teach the students since 2023. And of course, if you make the students work so hard because they have to come twice a week, one and a half hours each time, we need to showcase what they have learned. So every year we have a very big performance on a huge stage.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So by doing so, do you believe that their personality, their character has been transformed? Because that gives them confidence. Confidence means everything, you know.
Harry Lee: Basically, music is only a tool to help these children. What we need to train them are very basic but important social skills, concentration,.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Discipline is very important.
Harry Lee: These two things, without them, nobody can do anything. And this I say to them every year, I say to the parents, if they cannot learn these two things in something that they are supposed to have interest in, none of your school and after school tutorial can help them. And of course, I, being educated in the west, believe children should learn in a happy environment. Most children would like to be treated very gently, with respect. Yes. I cannot say if we have succeeded in helping the children. But one thing we know, with no uncertainty in every one of our children’s mental frame of mind, they know how important they are to us. And we are also very encouraged by the fact at the beginning we used to beg the parents to participate and they wouldn’t bother. Not everyone is so fortunate to have received a good education or have been taught certain so called right values. You know, we, in our situation, we were taught this ever since we were young. But you know, from the parents being very hands off till now, the mothers are volunteering. Volunteering to help do makeup for the children. They come and they bring snacks for the children. In a way, we are very lucky because another byproduct of this, we could have possibly improved the family dynamics. When children grow up in a more peaceful environment, they are more docile.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Okay, let me ask you, your first group of choir, which is in 2014 today, they must be over 20 years old.
Harry Lee: Yes.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Right. Did they keep in touch with you?
Harry Lee: They do.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): And then what are they doing? Does it give them a background and give them the personality that they can build the future?
Harry Lee: The eldest ones are almost about to enter university.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Right.
Harry Lee: Since 2024, our 10th anniversary, we started inviting the children back. For the first year, 12 came. But those were the 12 of our best students ever.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Oh, really?
Harry Lee: Yes.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Best student ever
Harry Lee: Best student ever.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Wow.
Harry Lee: It is very important for the children who are in the programme now to be in touch with them. Because in these, we call them now Little Angels Alumni. By the way, our choirs are called Little Angels.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Okay, so, so what are they doing out of these 12, I mean 12 students? They are only going to university. No one, no one is starting working or what?
Harry Lee: No, no, no. They’re still, many of them are still in form three, form four, form five. But we are very happy that they would like to come back because obviously then they probably thought they got something out of this.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): No, it’s the belonging which is very important.
Harry Lee: You know, we always say, and I say this to the children every year, our door is always wide open. But we are not going to force you to come in. You have to want to come in yourself.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Do you have a personal relationship with any of these kids that you know that you keep on maintaining?
Harry Lee: My summers when there are no classes are usually phone calls to talk to the children, just to keep in touch. Some will keep in touch without my calling them. Nowadays they have WhatsApp, they keep in touch.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): But Harry, you know, you don’t have children. What makes you so compassionate about young and children? And if you are so compassionate, why don’t you have your own children?
Harry Lee: It’s very different to have your own children.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Why?
Harry Lee: The same wise man who told me about the power of music said to me long time ago, if you adopt children or have your own children, you may be able to help two or three or four, but if you do a programme like this, you can help many, many children.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): But you can have your own children and do the programme, you can do both.
Harry Lee: It’s not the same. As I once explained to the children when they accused me of being long winded, because I said to them, uncle Harry is very long winded. I will say something to you and you probably do not understand, but I shall repeat until you understand. So one of the cute little girls said, uncle Harry, you are so long winded. But my parents are long winded. And it gave me a very good excuse to teach them something. I said, do you know why adults are so long winded? Do you remember at the beginning your parents spoke to you very gently and then it got louder and louder and more and more aggressive because it seems like in their mind, since you don’t follow, you either have not heard or you’re not obeying. But also I understand why children don’t do certain things because nobody want to be left out. Especially as you go into your adolescent year, you want to just like everybody else. And doing what everyone else does is not always the right thing, because it takes enormous courage to be outstanding and doing the right thing that may not be popular.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Wow. I mean, did you learn about this when you were young? Well, were you really. You’re not rebellious, so and so you just.
Harry Lee: I was always very rebellious, so.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Oh, you were always rebellious, so and so. All these words. It doesn’t.
Harry Lee: But then, you see, I was lucky. Usually if you are locked, I always say, very obedient children are wonderful to deal with, but usually the naughty ones have much better imagination.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Oh, I like naughty. I like naughty students.
Harry Lee: And actually it’s like the pendulum swinging one way, it will swing back the other way. But now we are in our 12th year, we learn something and this is a reality we have to accept. We try to help the same children and we all teach them the same way.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Why didn’t you do it the same thing in London? You were in London for so many years and why did you do.
Harry Lee: It was not the right time.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So you believe in timing as well? Of course.
Harry Lee: First of all, it’s not always that easy to deal with unpleasant situations or to deal with situations that are not happy. I don’t think I had the courage at that time to deal with all that.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Did you talk, did you speak and get advice from your Rinpoche?
Harry Lee: Of course I did.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): I knew it, I knew it. In fact, by the way, My friend here, Harry Lee, is very spiritual and he’s been following a living Buddha rinpoche for over 30 years.
Harry Lee: In fact, everything I say to the children was what I remembered he said to me, I love this. I just decided to say them all back in Cantonese. So in a way, I am not creative at all. I had a good enough memory to remember what he said to me. And I say this back to the children.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So actually you are preaching, you are what your Rinpoche preach you and you are transferring all these to the younger generation. An oral transmission.
Harry Lee: Yes. Well, I’m not so sure how effective that is, but I always remember what he said also. Don’t be ambitious. One step at a time. Baby steps.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So.
Harry Lee: Hopefully this will be something that will continue for a long time.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So are you happy so far? Are you satisfied so far what you have contribute?
Harry Lee: Well, one is never satisfied. Of course,.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): That is quite ambitious. This is quite ambitious.
Harry Lee: But I think we must be very realistic in knowing limitations. Again, this is what I also understand from the teachings I received. You have to plant a seed and over time the seed will bud and it will create other seeds. This is what the children hopefully will do.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): The children, those whose older generation, I mean the older ones, are they still singing?
Harry Lee: Many of them are.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Wow, I love this.
Harry Lee: Many of them are. Even if they are not, it doesn’t matter.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): It doesn’t matter. But it’s nice that they are continuing. Yes, that’s because passion is very difficult to find. Once you have that passion, it sticks with you and it can overcome a lot of crisis.
Harry Lee: But also more importantly, I think children from their adolescence or when until they are of a certain age, they must try many things. And in trying they will find out what is right for them, what is wrong for them.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So what do you see? Hong Kong Choral Project in 20 years time?
Harry Lee: Well, first of all, it is our fantasy. And I say this to them every year. You are all to be an important member of society, a contributing member of society. But at the same time, I teach them or I tell them I can’t teach them anything. Being a contributing member of society doesn’t require you to do earth shattering things. Not everyone can do that. If you are not a burden on society, you are already contributing. And I do hope and I say this once to them. Do you know why we are so happy to see you every day, every time we see you? Because every time we see you, we see hope and we see future. And they are the future. And their children is another future. And that’s all we can do to help them see clearly. Because in today’s world, it is not just in Hong Kong, it’s the world all over. Young people don’t see a future. And when you don’t see a future, you tend to be destructive, disruptive. So hopefully the first step is to tell them to share. I remember when I was studying singing Madame Zeani said, and I have to imitate her in her speech. She said, darling, on the stage, we have to compete because we are not competing to win. You have to compete because you have to inspire everybody to do the best. But in life, you must be kind to each other.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Beautiful, beautiful words.
Harry Lee: We do hope the children have something inside them. It is something very difficult to say because it’s a certain inner strength that cannot be expressed in words. I hope by their feeling that they are being treasured and we make huge effort to those students who don’t do well, we actually pay more attention to those students so that they don’t feel they are not important. So this is our duty, because I hope that if they believe they are important to us, they will start to calm down and treasure themselves.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Harry, what strikes me most is that you are not just creating music. You are creating confidence, belief, hope, opportunity. Every choir, all the voices are important. But there’s a deeper meaning. Because when young people believe and trust their voice, future can change.
Harry Lee: And I also tell them society consists of many different voices. Just like in the choir, if everyone speaks the same voice, it will be so dull. It should be different. But we all must learn to respect others points of view, as we all insist others must respect our point of view.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Bravo. Thank you, Harry.
Harry Lee: Thank you.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Thank you, Harry, for joining us. And thank you for watching or listening to Pearl Lam Podcast.
