Pearl Lam: Hello, this is Pearl Lam Podcast. I am here in Copenhagen and I’m sitting here in this wonderful restaurant, Jordnær. My Danish is bad. So I came here last August and I had the most amazing food here. And also I find out that this is a restaurant founded because of love. So now I have Eric Vildgaard God, we got. And Tina, the husband and wife who founded this and this wonderful restaurant. So just for the audience to know, because I’m a foodie, many people who may not be a foodie, can you give a brief about yourselves?

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, but like you say, we are husband and wife. We. We opened the restaurant in May 2017. Eight years ago. Time flies. Like yesterday. Yeah, it seems like yesterday, but still a lot have happened in those eight years. So Tina  and I, we met each other back in February 2016 where I just came into a kitchen where Tina was running a hotel, and the head chef there was my very good friend. And I was in a very dark place.

Pearl Lam:  I was told that you were very naughty.

Eric Vildgaard: I was very naughty.

Pearl Lam: Very wicked and naughty.

Eric Vildgaard: I am still very naughty.

Tina Vildgaard: But I think at that point, may be a bit sad.

Eric Vildgaard:I was very sad. I just lost both my parents back to back.

Pearl Lam: Wow.

Eric Vildgaard: And I was like, I come from a very rough upbringing.

Pearl Lam: So you were angry.

Eric Vildgaard: I was very angry and very sad because there was a lot of questions all of a sudden popping up in my head that I knew I will never get the answer to because the ones I needed to ask were no longer among us. So I was like in a very dark place in my mind and I just gave up on everything. I was just like self pity, sad, damaging myself, a lot of alcohol and drugs. My friend, he just picked me up and said, hey, you cannot do this to yourself. And I was like. And he actually pulled me out into his car and he, we drove to the restaurant where he was working in the afternoon. And as soon as I came in the kitchen, I was like. I felt like an awakening because, you know, I belong in the kitchen. That’s. That’s my safe space. I don’t have to think about emotions, anything, but. But on the food, you know, like, it’s like that’s my exit. And then in this kitchen, through the kitchen, this beautiful redhead lady was walking past, and I  was just like, wow. And my friend is the chef. He’s like, this is. This is the director. So I was like, wow. Okay. And then apparently Tina was also looking at me without me noticing. And then she was kind of chasing me down. Yeah. And you look at us, it should be the other way around. Yeah, but she chased me down.

Tina Vildgaard: I invited you to have a walk around the local lake.

Eric Vildgaard: Yes.

Tina Vildgaard: With a bottle of wine and the sun.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. And then we kissed. And nine months later, she gave birth to our daughter. So that’s how we started.

Pearl Lam: Hey, so is it lust at first sight or love at first sight?

Eric Vildgaard: It’s a combination.

Pearl Lam: It can be both, because they’re destined to be together. Together.

Eric Vildgaard: And I mean, if you don’t have love and lust mixed together, then it just becomes very hollow.

Tina Vildgaard: And of course, every day, you know.

Eric Vildgaard: We found each other and become.

Tina Vildgaard: Then your friend got sick.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, Then boyfriend, girlfriend. And then my friend, he got sick. Very sick, actually. The. The chef there called Mass, and he. He asked me to step in for him to. To. Until he was up on his feet again. And. And Tina accepted that idea, and I became the chef there. Like the head chef. I changed the whole menu to my own menu.

Pearl Lam: So. Are you allowed to be creative? You’re head chef. You can do whatever, right?

Tina Vildgaard: Yeah, but still.

Eric Vildgaard: And then I put a dish on, you know, like, implementing a few new dishes, and this was the first. We were just like. Like dating, like, flirting a little bit. Yeah. Kissing. And. And then Tina, she. We did the menu tasting, and she tasted the lancoustine with a red current sauce, and she said, it’s very sour. And to be clear, in a kitchen, milk gets sour, not food is not sour, or the wife, you know, gets sour, you know, but. But a dish can be too acidic. It’s like, you know, and when you, when you approach a chef, you know, on his emotions, because food is our emotions, then, you know, it’s very we are very fragile when it comes to our ego. We are. We are. And so, so sour. So we had a massive fight in front of the whole Staff. And that ignited a little bit more passion between us because I understood, I understood what she said after tasting it again, I understand.

Pearl Lam: Was it too sour?

Eric Vildgaard: It was too acidic. It was not too sour. That’s the thing. And then, you know, we gradually started to speak each other’s lingo. So we became very strong together, you know, under pairings. And you know, she makes me better and I trust that I also make her better because we see different from two different perspectives on each other.

Tina Vildgaard: We talk a lot as well.

Eric Vildgaard: And we talk a lot. So what I see from a chef’s perspective towards service, I can add to the, to Tina’s idea and what she tastes, she can say, she can guide me a little bit sometimes because sometimes in the kitchen.

Pearl Lam: Oh, of course, you like television.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. But also all the employees, you know, all your chefs around you. Yeah, yeah. But it’s hard for them to taste it, to say, our chef, this is a little too sour. They would never say that because, you know, emotions are high.

Pearl Lam: Yeah.

Eric Vildgaard: So they, they more or less just pat you on the back and then, yeah, all is good. And just so, so. And without that like resistance and a little bit of like criticism, you cannot grow. So you see, I grow very fast. A lot of criticism in a positive way.

Pearl Lam: But. But when you were working in that kitchen at the time, did you start making your name there?

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, in some way I was like starting to take myself a little bit more serious. I came from being a head chef at an Almanack restaurant in Copenhagen. I worked at Noma, you know, I’ve been around and seeing different kitchens and I was like just doing day to day labour because I was still a little bit, you know, I had a hard time leaving my past because in my past I was involved with a lot of like different organisations, but in the criminal underground of Europe. So for me to exit, that was like leaving a part of my identity behind. And why I became a chef was because in a gang you have the same structure in a kitchen. [really] . Yeah, it’s like the, it’s here and now, you know, so the action reaction happens instantly, you know, because it’s not like any other trade where you can wait a little bit for the response. The response is instant on the table. So in the same in. If you’re selling drugs and you do misunderstanding, then it has very high repercussion. Like straight away, you know, there’s no, no time to chat, you know, so. So now we are in the business of making people happy. Not Making people sad. So, so that makes, I think that’s one of the, the good things I take from my past into the kitchens is like I know the roughness of both industries. So I cannot, I don’t have to be rough in the kitchen in the same way because, you know.

Tina Vildgaard: But the reason why I wanted to leave the place up there was because you couldn’t like really put his 100%.

Eric Vildgaard: We, we, we had, we had an owner, the owner of the place where we made it. Other. He was asking to put a steak on the menu.

Tina Vildgaard: And we had a bistro as well.

Eric Vildgaard: We had to find out he’s the owner. So we do it and say okay, which piece of meat do you want? He would like to have a ribeye. Then I served him the ribeye, perfectly cooked and everything. Hand cut fries. Bernes, he asked, ah, can we remove the fat? So it just goes to show. But it just goes to show if.

Tina Vildgaard: You cut it into half.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, if, if a person demands a steak and wants a ribeye without fat. Fat.

Pearl Lam: This is ridiculous. Then have a fillet mignon. You know, if you don’t want fat.

Eric Vildgaard: Exactly. But then, then, you know, you cannot, I cannot work with a person like that for sure. So I said I have to leave. And she agreed. And then she said, what do you want to do? I said we should open our own place. We didn’t have any money. So Tina was searching for a place for, for this to happen because she kind of also I think in her head knew I needed something to do or as I, you know, get restless and then I start to [gangster]. I need action. I need action all the time because if I’m getting bored, I start climbing on the walls, you know, so that’s not good. I get restless and a restless mind is never a, a good thing. So. No, not for me at least. And then I was sitting at home, you know, we, we shared in a, like a house with my daughter from my previous marriage and Tina’s three kids from before. And Tina was pregnant with our first kid in between the two of us. And it was December 20161and she came home, say, oh, I found a place. So in the car we drove from, we live up north. So we drove in here and in the parking lot here. I did not know the area at all. We came in the back door and it was like we came in here to the old. There was a restaurant here from the, for the hotel and it was called Le Patron. And it was like it was a bit old it was probably the most ugly restaurant I, I’ve ever seen. I am very honest. There was a seat, there were seats for 90 people in here. And it was like, with a buffet in the middle, like, and coffee stains on the wall, like, thick carpets with stains all over, little furniture with broken seats. And it was so horrible. And we came in and said, what are we doing here? I thought we had a meeting with somebody, some. She looked at me very smiling, said, oh, this is our new restaurant. I have never been so insulted in my life. I was like. And she looked at me and said, what’s wrong? Are you serious? This cannot be the restaurant. You know, the ambition we talked about in this place. She looked at me ice cold, said, how much money do you have? Because we didn’t have any. I didn’t have any money. At least I, I, you know, for many reasons, a little bit of debt and, you know, it’s like I didn’t have any. I could not say anything. So she looked at me, oh, no money. Then this is what you get. She’s the clever one. And now I was like, okay, if you see potential in this, you need to help me see it as well. And then we started the restaurant.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, I remember, Tina, when I saw you in August, you told me that Eric said he wants to open. He wants to open. He wants, wanted to open the restaurant. Next thing you did was you calling every, everybody that you know who can back and back, back the restaurant. And your dream was to make his dream reality because you trust him.

Tina Vildgaard: But at the same time, you know, we were already running a place for, for a man with financial part in it. So we didn’t want to go into that solution again because Eric didn’t have a, a name at that time. So for, for us to like, for me, it was important to, to do something on our own. And that meant as well, to do something financially on our own. And, and so I called up an old friend and, and asked her, oh, maybe we can borrow like a small corner in one of your hotels. She was like the CEO, so not the owner, but she was running like 14 hotels in Copenhagen. So I asked her, maybe you can borrow a small corner just because my, my, yeah, boyfriend, soon to be husband, he really wants to open a restaurant. And I don’t really know, let’s see, you know, but, but in that way he could at least try it. I thought maybe she would like, offer us one of the nice locations in town.

Pearl Lam: But actually the restaurant made the hotel now

Tina Vildgaard: Yeah, but at the, at that time, this was the only location available for them. Like, very bad run. They have been the owner since 59. So of course, at some point, you know, they just like let it go a bit and then, then they needed to find a solution for it. So this was what we could. This was what we could get, you know.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. And then, then they said yes to us moving in here. But they also wanted to know what we wanted to use the space for. Because since we are renting it, but they are. It’s also inside their building. And we, I had, you know, we made this long like prospects for, for what was about to happen. And we sat with the owner before we signed the papers and he was like, he had read through them and he said, try to sum up the. The whole idea. So what is it you’re saying? Say within two years there’s going to be a Michelin Star here in the address. And he laughed.

Pearl Lam: He laughed.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, he laughed because it was over ambitious. Also when I said it, I was like, okay, if you’re dreaming, you know, it’s like out there. Because I was nobody. I was a chef working in the back of like in the shadow of my brother, who was the head chef at Noma for 13 years. And everybody. I came, you know, you know, broken soul with a bad history, been in prison. Nobody believed in me, you know, nobody. And that energy fueled me to also.

Pearl Lam: You proved them wrong.

Eric Vildgaard: I’m gonna prove them wrong because I knew my talent inside. I knew I was like, I. In my world, I’m a very good chef. But you are not allowed to say that in Denmark because we have the law. So if you think that you’re better than anybody, then you’re, well, you’re wrong. Because we’re all equals. That’s very Danish. So, but then I say, well, and then we opened May

Tina Vildgaard: And then very fast, and we asked him, okay, now you’re laughing. Okay, if we then get a star, can we then get half rent?

Pearl Lam: Yeah, you awesome.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. Then he said, yeah, if you get a star, you get half rent. Because. Because it was like, for him, easy to say because it’s not going to happen.

Tina Vildgaard: It’s never going to happen.

Eric Vildgaard: Then we opened May 2017, August 2017. We had the mission inspector sitting right where Tina is sitting right now.

Tina Vildgaard: Yeah, yeah.

Eric Vildgaard: And you know, he came in and.

Tina Vildgaard: Just like, it’s more or less the only English number.

Eric Vildgaard: Yes. We had a lot of local guests only. Nobody travelled to Kins to eat my food because who was I?

Tina Vildgaard: We were open, you know, so we.

Eric Vildgaard: So we had an English guy on a Gmail with a UK number with a name which could be somepoets. You know, like it’s like very.

Pearl Lam: And so, you know, you knew that this is a Michelin guy.

Tina Vildgaard: No, we didn’t because then he arrived to the door and he was like wearing like an old raincoat. Like a bit like worn out shoes.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, no, not worn out shoes, but like trainers and watch with a, like a Velcro wrist wrap.

Tina Vildgaard: Like he could be a chef.

Eric Vildgaard: He was a chef. I said, this is a chef travelling.

Tina Vildgaard: So he ate fast.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah

Tina Vildgaard: And then he, then he started ordering a beer.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, a bit like, you know, but then he started eating and I saw the way he was eating the scallop dish we had. And I went to, to, to. Because back then we. I also help clearing and cleared and say, oh, how did you like this? It’s very intelligent. He said like the combination. And you know, you can definitely then your industry if you know the way he talked and the way he ate. So after the meal I just, you know, I. Okay, he’s industry, you know, so just wanted to. Oh, what?

Pearl Lam: Try off.

Eric Vildgaard: So what are you doing in, in Copenhagen? He said, if I get the bill, I’ll tell you what I do have. Then Tina was on table seven talking. I was like. And I started sweating because that’s the only way that. Yeah, was talking to some other guest and she, you know, she’s Miss hospitality. She was like say. And then after she. Oh, the gentleman would like his bill. And then he paid and then he got up, shook my hand as I introduced himself with his name and said I am from the Michelin guide. And do you have time to sit with me? I said yes, of course. And we sat down talking.

Tina Vildgaard: At that point they actually gave out.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, no, they, they had a, like we had to sign some papers for, for them to. You use our name for marketing purposes and stuff. Yeah, yeah. So.

Pearl Lam: So were you excited then?

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, I was very excited. And then we didn’t hear anything from them.

Tina Vildgaard: But on the night, he was super sweet.

Eric Vildgaard: He was super sweet.

Tina Vildgaard: He took his time to talk.

Eric Vildgaard: Oh, but the Michelin, as always, you know, we never had a bad experience with them, you know, never. They always kind people that, you know, they’re very like normal in some sense. You know, they, they, they represented the diners very well. They, they, they are, you know, they don’t want to put us down, they want to lift us up. And you feel that it’s like not in their agenda to try to, to test us in a negative way because you know, they know the power they have. And you know, I notice all these movies trying to out. They put a fork on the floor and all this. But they don’t try to seek failure for us. They. They just want to have a genuine experience when they’re here. For sure. I think, I think the Michelin is magic.

Pearl Lam: So and so she took you away and he start talking to you and then he tried to understand how you make your food.

Eric Vildgaard: A lot of, A lot of questions. We had a talk like we are having right now, just sitting in there. We had a table in the here and we talked for an hour or so, signed the papers and then I went to, to the kitchen and it was a very small team. We were three guys in the kitchen andTina and I said it was the Michelin. And it was like wow, I remember.

Pearl Lam: That it was like so excited.

Tina Vildgaard: Yeah, that was magic.

Eric Vildgaard: And then we didn’t hear anything. And then winter comes and it was in May, always in February, back before corona. It was like the second, second week, second week of February was the release for the Michelin guide in Denmark. And we went skiing in week seven because that’s the school holidays. And we went with; Tina’s parents invited us to, to Norway to ski with the kids. And we were like, we didn’t hear anything but all of a sudden I saw people that, you know, back then I was like looking into and they looked at me and competitors, you know, the candidates for a star posting. Ah, now I got the invitation for the Michelin and I was like, where’s my invitation? There was no invitation. And then it was like we were the week seven as week eight would, was the release of the guide. And no, I didn’t hear anything. And then we were travelling. Yeah. Because we had promised an elderly couple to do their 85-year anniversary.

Tina Vildgaard: Yeah. Like for like 15 guests.

Eric Vildgaard: Crown diamond wedding. So. And we had an team. So. So it was only me and Tina that went home. That went home, opened up the restaurant to do this function three course dinner and then there was like this email ticking in. So we extended the guest list. So if you would like to join.

Tina Vildgaard: Us, if you want to come, you.

Eric Vildgaard: Can pop by if you want to say okay, at least we’re invited. So. So they know about us. So we’re in the circle. So let’s go there. So we went Monday, you know, we came home Sunday and then Monday we just went in, you know, bought some silverware.

Tina Vildgaard: Actually, actually we just took the time to walk around.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, walk around. And we didn’t expect anything. No, at all. You know, because they would insist and.

Pearl Lam: Say that you have to be there.

Eric Vildgaard: You will a little bit for us to be there. So I was like, okay, at least perhaps then next year. I was very clear about that. And then we go in and mingle with everybody and all of a sudden you’re in the circle, you know, like, you’re with the Michelin chefs. So. So being seen in the right circles. Then we stand and actually, next to me is a chef who that year had been very arrogant to me. Yeah, that year, you know, because he was expecting. He had like, a big. A restaurant with a big backing and everything. And he was, like, very arrogant in a situation where he said, because we were nominated for Breakthrough of the Year in the Danish. Yeah, in the Danish Eating Guide, you know, which is a big thing in Denmark, but it’s not international. But in Denmark it means something also. As a young restaurant, you want to have all the publicity you can do.

Pearl Lam: Of course, of course.

Eric Vildgaard: And we didn’t win. And then I was a little disappointed because I don’t play to to lose, you know, I want to win always.

Pearl Lam: Oh, you didn’t win.

Eric Vildgaard: No, we didn’t win. And then he came to me and like, ah, but you also need to go and practice, he was being super arrogant. And he was standing next to practise a bit. Yeah. Then he was standing next to me and he was expecting a star and they called my name on stage and I slapped him at the shoulder. I went home and practised. Huh. And then I went on stage because, you know, I’m. I’m not arrogant. But if you’re arrogant to watch me. Yeah, of course, yeah. You might. You might experience a side of me which people don’t like.

Tina Vildgaard: But actually, the only one I think expected us to get a star was.

Eric Vildgaard: This the only guy who said, you know, when we came in to the.

Tina Vildgaard: To the event.

Eric Vildgaard: To the event, this guy who’s the director and owner of the Danish Eating Guide, where we didn’t win, he saw us and said, oh, so you’re getting your star today? I said, huh? But of course you get a star. He was 100 per cent confident. None of the other journalists expected it. Oh, but he.

Pearl Lam: He was 100 per cent

Eric Vildgaard: He said, you’re getting a star today. And I was like, no, no, no. I didn’t believe him. I was like, no, no way. And then we had the star.

Pearl Lam: Wow.

Eric Vildgaard: And then because we started out being a little bit like over ambitious and clearly not over ambitious, just on the right ambition because we had the star. And then I came down from the stage, the journalist. Oh, so what now? Said now two stars. And people just like, you’re crazy. And then.

Tina Vildgaard: But it was also at a time, you know, we, you know, everything was very simple.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: You know, there was.

Tina Vildgaard: We were not many.

Pearl Lam: I love it. And then you see two stars. And then what happened? They were shocked.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. And then they, you know, they say, well, what. Shouldn’t you just, like, sit back, enjoy? One star is good. And, you know. Yeah, but it’s very. But if you can get one, you can get two.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, yeah.

Eric Vildgaard: Because, you know, I don’t want to be like, just sit back, relax and be dead. Because following the current, it’s only the dead salmon. The salmon that is alive go upstream, you know, so let’s go upstream and see what’s up at the end. And then people. Oh, a little bit. And we came back to the hotel and say, no, what about half the rent?

Pearl Lam: Yeah, half the rent.

Eric Vildgaard: And he was like, we got half. I said, now. And they said. And they also asked, then what now? I say, now we go for two stars. Yeah, yeah. But easy, easy. Yeah, it’s out. It’s more difficult and they don’t know anything about it. They’re like, more and more. Oh, it’s like, it’s very difficult. And the two stars back then, there was only five two stars in the. In Denmark. Yeah, it’s like.

Pearl Lam: And no, no, three stars.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, we had one three star.

Pearl Lam: Only one three stars and five, two stars. Wow.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. And then I said, I want to be part of that two stars.

Pearl Lam: Yeah.

Eric Vildgaard: And people, everyone around me said, ah, you know, doubting it. So then it became 2019. Nothing happened. In 2020, we had the same second star.

Pearl Lam: And then the rental reduced to a quarter.

Eric Vildgaard: And then we came down and then they asked, now what? And I said, now three. Nobody laughed.

Pearl Lam: They know you’re serious.

Eric Vildgaard: We were very serious. And it’s not that you can get stars and say, okay, this is the recipe. But I think if you put the ambition and you manifest it for yourself, if you don’t believe it yourself.

Pearl Lam: Yes.

Eric Vildgaard: Who else is going to believe you?

Pearl Lam: Yeah.

Eric Vildgaard: And if you. And if you don’t play to, you know, an attacking game in some way, then if you need to believe it yourself, you need to believe.

Pearl Lam: You need to believe.

Eric Vildgaard: You cannot be a winner with a loser’s mentality. You cannot be so you need to. And you know, that was the only guide that I really wanted to be, you know, chasing like hot, hot. Because it’s like, it’s a guide for the diners, you know, it’s like for worldwide. It means the same restaurants. Yeah. And they helped us when we were nobody. They made a mark in our, in my career and in our restaurant’s life.

Pearl Lam: I remember you told me that, Tina, after you get one star, the business was just flying.

Tina Vildgaard: But it was. And it was like from one day to another, we didn’t have more or less, we did not have any guests when we opened, you know, because again, we didn’t have any money for marketing. So no one knew about us. Maybe a local couple that was going to the cinema dropped in and asked if they could have like a single dish. Maybe a hotel guest, because it is a hotel, dropped in and asked can I sit here with my laptop working and then maybe have two course dinner or something like that. But that was it. So it was super tough in the beginning. And then from one day to another.

Pearl Lam: Fully booked, fully book wait list and all that just because of one star. So it’s self advertising.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah

Pearl Lam: So stars are very important.

Eric Vildgaard: Especially they were for us because we, we didn’t have anything. And all of a sudden we had a star. And a star just makes you. People talk about you, people want to do a podcast about you and they want to write about you because it’s a.

Pearl Lam: It’s like you want to try your food.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. People want to come and you know by that you can cook the most.

Tina Vildgaard: The magical food in the world.

Pearl Lam: Nobody knows about us, nobody knows about you. Yeah.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. Then all of a sudden everybody, at least in Denmark, knew about us. Some foreigners, two stars, you know, because in 18 we had the star. And then in summer 19, we were really struggling to keep. Keep because then you’re used to being full and then all of a sudden you have restaurant.

Pearl Lam: Yeah.

Eric Vildgaard: But also you put the.

Tina Vildgaard: We are located in an area where we have a lot of regulars because they can afford to go out and dine. But they were gone the whole summer like they were in the summer houses in France.

Eric Vildgaard: We were really struggling and that was the year where we considered is it worth it? Because it was so hard on a personal, you know, also for our personal economy, because everything is cutting into each other kind of way, you know, and so we.

Tina Vildgaard: No holiday with the kids.

Eric Vildgaard: No. We looked at each other and say, and do we really want to, like. Because we put like, we invested all the money we gained into new place, new, new everything to. To upgrade the restaurant. Because we said two stars. Then we want to have two stars. We looked at each other. Oh. And at that time, we were offered by a big fast-food chain to do one dish for them, a burger. And. And they were, with the money under my nose and was like, I cannot, you know, I don’t mind. I eat a burger every now and then, but I cannot as a chef, like, like vouch for that because it’s not quality, you know? So I said no to the money because people, even when we needed the money the most. Yeah. And I said no. Then I rather close than endorse, like, something which kills people. Yeah. You know, so. So I can’t. I can’t do that as a chef.

Tina Vildgaard: But we do eat a burger.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. It’s not. I’m not. I’m not a. You know, I’m not the same in. In that way. But I cannot put my name and say, hey, you should eat this one, because it’s go May all of a sudden.

Pearl Lam: No, but, but 2019, this is when you get your star ready and then you have people coming in all the time and all of a sudden just slow down.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: And they slowed because your cash flow has a problem.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. But I think also the hype, if you would say on one star.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, everybody wants to try. And after they try it, slow down.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, yeah. It’s like.

Tina Vildgaard: And it was still more or less, only Danish guests. More or less.

Pearl Lam: Hey, so when you get two stars, the business again change

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, but two stars is very long. Long stability on the bookings. It changed the game.

Pearl Lam: When you say long stability of the bookings, what do you mean?

Eric Vildgaard: We are fully booked for a long time.

Tina Vildgaard: I just mean in Denmark for waitlist.

Pearl Lam: And people come in international.

Eric Vildgaard: Up until we had the third star, we were still fully fully booked with a wait list. Then we get three stars. Now the waitlist just.

Tina Vildgaard: Just longer.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, I know. I tried.

Eric Vildgaard: Okay.

Pearl Lam: It’s really difficult. What are you talking about? But when I came in August, several of my friends gave me, because I’m foodie, gave me the list of restaurant that I could go. So I think my staff was booking with you. It was fully booked until you have a cancellation. I was so lucky that. But people in America, everybody was talking about you. Everybody’s, have you tried his food? And then when I said that, I did. How come you did it?

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. And you know, unfortunately, that’s the unfortunate part of it because we want to keep ourselves a small, intimate restaurant where you come and visit Tina and I, because it is a family run restaurant in that sense and it is Tina and I who is the ambience about everything. There will be days where we, you know, on this coming Friday, we are invited to the. The big ball with the King and the Queen of Denmark. So of course we go, you know. Of course, yes.

Pearl Lam: Wow. From a gangster until meeting the King and the Queen. Very chic.

Eric Vildgaard: They have been dining here a few times. Yeah.

Pearl Lam: Wow. It’s great. And you know what is amazing is I want to talk about your dishes, you know. You know, you look at like a macho gangster.

Eric Vildgaard: I am, but I am very feminine on the plates.

Pearl Lam: When you see your dishes, it’s so delicate and with little flowers on it.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. But the thing is, it’s an outlet because we create beauty. And that’s the thing, because we put a lot of energy into making the ingredients shine the most. Also in terms of the expression through the visuals. And this is my Billy Eliad. You know, I’m the Kolmin son who wants to dreamed about dancing ballet. But I never been in an environment where I could express that, like beauty, but only darkness. I grew up in darkness. I was raised in darkness. I became darkness and out of that is all this beautiful lightness.

Pearl Lam: I mean, it’s incredible. When we saw you coming into the room, you’re the chef, we look at the dish. How come the dish and it’s just completely two different.

Eric Vildgaard: It should be a raw tomahawk steak cut with an axe.

Pearl Lam: Exactly, exactly. It was really very tense.

Eric Vildgaard: But that’s probably also why it makes an impact, you know, because, you know, it’s so contrasting. It’s very contrasting.

Pearl Lam: You’re like a paradox.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, I am a paradox. I think

Pearl Lam: Completely paradox.

Eric Vildgaard: That’s well said.

Pearl Lam: And I think another good story that I want to share with the audience is I remember you told me that you were very naughty, that you were sent to a boat.

Eric Vildgaard: Yes.

Pearl Lam: And then in that boat they give you a recipe and then that’s how you start cooking.

Eric Vildgaard: No, but I was sent on this boat because I was kicked out from a youth detention centre. Yeah. They could not handle me because I was too aggressive and too, too crazy for them. And I was driving around with like a social worker staying in hotels because there was no place to put me. Yeah. The only chance they said is we’re going to put you in adult prison. And then there was a guy who has like this youth project.

Pearl Lam: How old were you then?

Eric Vildgaard: 16.

Pearl Lam: 16. Wow.

Eric Vildgaard: And it was like he was. He had this private, like, how to say, private facility where he.

Pearl Lam: Security.

Eric Vildgaard: Yes. Yeah. Where he housed this guy. He heard about my story and he contacted the, like the, the Copenhagen government and. And then he said, oh, let me talk to this guy and take him in. And he. And his place was like a pre school for, you know, being sent to sail in Caribbean on like yachts, you know, for these troubled kids. And we had used to have a lot of sailboat projects in the world for Danish sailboats because we are sailors’ nation, which is very good that you take the trouble you the way and get them to sail because on a boat you have to, you have to add value. Value. Because if you.

Tina Vildgaard: There’s no drugs and there’s no, there’s.

Eric Vildgaard: No drugs, no alcohol, you’re in the middle of nowhere.

Tina Vildgaard: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: And then you have to work with your team as well.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. But I was unfortunate in. While being on this camp, sort of. I, I got in some more trouble again. Again. So. So they were like, okay, we need to do something asap because the next thing, when he gets his next sentence, he will go to the youth prison. No doubt at all. Prison. No doubt about it. So they were like, for the best of me, they put me on a boat, but the only boat they had was like a coaster. Like a real commercial fleet boat. Yeah. With a Polish crew and a Danish captain. And all of a sudden I was just there in the middle of the North Sea, you know, rough sea. And I was so seasick, and it was nothing to do. And I was like. I went to the pantry and I found this Danish cookbook and I opened it and it was out of interest, just cooking a, baking a cake. And I served it for the sailors. These big Polish like sailors never smiling. They started smiling and they were super. They treated me different after, you know, it was like. And I found, okay, this is a way of communicating like good, good, good emotion by, by, by cooking. And that was probably the seed for my, my, my career.

Pearl Lam: So. So do you start working in. And, and in the kitchen throughout this, this boat?

Eric Vildgaard: No, but I was there and then was like getting so homesick that I wanted to, to leave again. And then I said, I cannot be on the boat and you know, got mental. And then my case already had been for court and it was like I came home and Then I had to to do an education. And I was like, I. I go to chef school. But I was not at all ready for chef school because it went actually like that that I walked around with; I smoked so much hash and did so many drugs that I was a little bit wrong inside. So I needed to go to the brain mechanics and they helped me a lot. And then I was not fit for being at chef school because you know, I was not, I was not disciplined. But then too young for that. And then I was finished with the psychiatric treatment and was like. And then I had to decide what to do. And then I said, okay, I want to be a sailor. So when sailing I went to sailors training academy. And then I came from, from that back home. And then I decided to; now I want to be a chef again. And then so I went to slow to be a chef apprentice.

Tina Vildgaard: Like a one star up north.

Eric Vildgaard: But it was like a very French classic hierarchy. And I, you know, you’re not ready for it. I was not ready for that. Some. Somebody lesser than me shouting me in my face. Yeah. The agitation within me was. I felt it could be a dangerous situation for them, not for me. But so in that sense I was not ready for that. So I stopped. Okay, not that. And then I started driving a little bit for the butcher, like the, for the. All the gourmet restaurants. And then my brother called me and says, hey, we need a hand. He was working at Noma. They had a lot of functions. So I started working at Noma and six months in I was a sous chef.

Pearl Lam: Six months. You became a sous chef junior.

Tina Vildgaard: In the beginning.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, in the beginning. In 2006 at Noma. Yeah.

Tina Vildgaard: They opened in what, two.

Eric Vildgaard: 2003. So three years in the, In Noma’s life, I was in the old place. I took over all the functions together with a guy called Corey. And Corey had to switch down to the a la carte, like fully. So it took his position, which was a sous chef position. And then.

Pearl Lam: So you are talented. You don’t even need to, to, you know, to, to do all the schools training and all that.

Eric Vildgaard: But because you can’t. You cooking is something you learn while cooking, not while being in the school.

Pearl Lam: But, but Noma, is it a very different setup than French?

Eric Vildgaard: Yes. The, the hierarchy there was of course very, you know, there was like. But the, the energy was very different. You know, there was a new language being talked. You know, it was not like the old like hierarchy, like yeah, classic. It was like new. Everything was New also the energy. And the energy coming from Noma changed the world, you know, in the gastronomic world and on good and bad, because there was also a lot of, like, agitation and, like, full power, which everybody talks about. But there was nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. There was some situations which could have been handled better over the time, for sure. But it took 20 years for them to manifest a new Nordic kitchen so strong that it is a par with the Spanish, Italian, and the French kitchen. 20 years.

Pearl Lam: Because in early 2000 Noma was still not known.

Eric Vildgaard: No, not. Not known prior to Noma that we didn’t have any Nordic cuisine. We had a lot of Nordic cuisine, but he assembled everything under one umbrella.

Pearl Lam: Yeah.

Eric Vildgaard: And then made us aware. And even people all over the world cooking being more attentive, thinking about seasonality even more than they did before. So everybody. Even when you travel to Thailand, they know about the Nordic thought

Pearl Lam: Yes, yes.

Eric Vildgaard: And they cook with that in mind in Thailand, which has one of the most rooted food cultures in the world.

Pearl Lam: Because there was one restaurant in and in Shanghai, just opened seven, eight months ago. The chef is Brazilian, also was working in Noma. And the food is amazing because it’s the Nordic thoughts. Never, never before. We always talk about French and then Spanish. Bully Spanish. And then it’s really sad.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. But I think they just reboot it because, you know, we talk about terroir kitchen. There’s no kitchen like the French.

Pearl Lam: Yes.

Eric Vildgaard: You know, like, you cannot have a boeuf bourguignon outside Burgundy, which is good, because it’s in Burgundy where they have the right cattle, the right wine, the right mushrooms, everything. You know, it’s like it’s made for that region. So you can, of course, copy it all over the world and make it decent with bourguignon. But the best one you get when it’s a beef bourguignon in Burgundy, you know, and they. They are such ingredient. They are so, so terroir driven in France that it’s. And we forgot that. And then we took it away from them by saying, oh, the terroir kitchen is only in Nordic. No, no. There is a lot of terroir kitchen. But I’m pretty sure Rene helped everyone understand their own terroir again in a different way, because people were, like, being aware. Okay, this is the. You know, we need to find back to the roots, because I don’t think the first Noma invented anything, but just Regaining control over our past.

Pearl Lam: Yes.

Eric Vildgaard: You know, and then highlighting it into fine dining. It’s a very magical thing. But Rene, you know, we had the langoustines, but we didn’t use it, you know, in the right way in Scandinavia. And all of a sudden things we took for granted and been never used and knew about in our region became like stars on the plate now.

Pearl Lam: And now when you came to Denmark, because of Noma, there’s so many restaurants. I mean, it becomes a foodie, A foodie attraction.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, but I don’t think there would be a food scene without Noma. Many of us chefs who are now successful on our own name, we have to pay tribute to Rene because we all been around that kitchen and the inspiration we all gain from that, we take it away very differently. I don’t cook Nordic, for example. I cook with the Nordic respect for the produce and with Nordic ingredients. French cooking and Japanese inspiration.

Pearl Lam: You have Japanese. I feel some of your food was like a fusion Japanese. But then you told me you never been to Japan.

Eric Vildgaard: I was in January.

Pearl Lam: Oh, you went to January now for where?

Eric Vildgaard: So Tokyo. I was invited for a; by the Tokyo government for a tour round.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, yeah. Did you try?

Eric Vildgaard: I tried a lot

Tina Vildgaard: You tried the sushi?

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, we went to sushi. Saito, for example.

Pearl Lam: Oh, Saito is very good. But do you, do you. My favourite is Kansai food in the place called Kanda. No, I didn’t go last. Next time when you go Kanda, because it’s not sushi. No, no, Sushi Seido is very, very good.

Eric Vildgaard: It’s very good. But I was beautiful. We had many, many, many, many, many, many good things. Also, also mutton yakatori with sopressa style, like Spanish style, but high, where you can move the, the racks and everything. It was really, really good. And you know, and also I learned kakigori is not just kakigori because it’s science. It’s more, it’s crazier than. And I just shaved ice. It’s.

Tina Vildgaard: You went to the food market?

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, we went to Tshiro market.

Pearl Lam: The food market, the fish market.

Eric Vildgaard:  We ate at the sun, which is a very strong three-star restaurant in my opinion.

Pearl Lam: So. So next, Next thing, you have to visit Hong Kong. Hong Kong is a foodie place.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, that’s actually, we talked about it.

Pearl Lam: Very next time when you. Before you visit Hong Kong, please let me know.

Eric Vildgaard: You know, Simon Rogan is. He was Simon Rogan from no Room in England. Three star chef. He has a one star in Hong Kong called Roganic.

Pearl Lam: Oh, I know, I know.

Eric Vildgaard: He just rebuilt his restaurant.

Pearl Lam: Hong Kong is.

Eric Vildgaard: And we’re going to cook together there when we are still. Hopefully soon. Yeah.

Tina Vildgaard: I don’t think before 2016.

Pearl Lam: Oh, please, please, you must let me know because Hong Kong people, we are all foodies.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. But I would love. And Hong Kong is my next go to destination for sure. When I have time for myself to. To travel, it will be Hong Kong for sure.

Pearl Lam: Because. Because do you go and try food in all different countries and then Vietnam as well?

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, we were in Vietnam, Thailand, I’ve been in Japan. We were in Singapore.

Pearl Lam: Did you go to the restaurant?

Eric Vildgaard: I think we didn’t eat and we didn’t eat at all. We went, we ate a lot, but local street food and we were with the kids and we buy.

Pearl Lam: We were wondering because there’s also a Danish or Scandinavian cook who has this restaurant in Kempinski which is a mix with Nordic and with Thai.

Tina Vildgaard: It’s amazing. But we’re going back to Bangkok in September.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. Bangkok Food Festival. We’re going to participate in that and also we’re going to travel just to eat because this time when we went to Thailand, all our friends from Thailand, all the Thai chefs, all of them. Oh. Come by my pleasure. There’s so much to explore and I think Thailand is very interesting.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, very interesting.

Eric Vildgaard: I think it’s going to be the new epicentre for, For. For the world gastronomy, you know, because, you know, it changed a little bit now. It was Scandinavia for many years. And I think the new thing is Southeast Asia and Asia in general. Not that Asia has been on the, on the boom, you know, with. But you cannot say to. Because Tokyo is a different planet, you know, it’s a different episode. They have their own culture complete.

Pearl Lam: Southeast Asia has a lot of herbs and they do very differently.

Eric Vildgaard: And it’s so emerging, you know, like. And of course you have like Hong Kong.

Pearl Lam: You have Hong Kong is, is, is a foodie.

Eric Vildgaard: You have Singapore, Tokyo. Like, I mean there’s a lot of like destination cities which is already stronger than strong. Yeah. But you know, like Thailand, Vietnam, you know, all these like outer. Foodie wise outer countries, they’re submerging so, so fast right now. So emerging, not submerging, emerging like right now. And I see, you know, the boom in Thailand is crazy.

Pearl Lam: So, so do you go and try all the food and then it. You get inspired and then you come back and you try different.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, but it doesn’t work. Like I taste a dish and then, oh, this Dish and then go home and then create a dish. But then when I do a dish next time, I was like, I have a flavour which. Oh, this would add here.

Tina Vildgaard: But it can also be like the texture.

Eric Vildgaard: Texture is very.

Pearl Lam: I remember you, Tina, you were telling me the first bit of money. You were, yeah, when you make. You want to change the crockeries.

Tina Vildgaard: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: And then. And then Eric said, no, no, no, we have to upgrade the wine.

Eric Vildgaard: No, that was the other way around. Yeah. I wanted some new plates.

Pearl Lam: Oh, you want to play that?

Eric Vildgaard: You said there was this, you know, the white.

Tina Vildgaard: But we started that. We started out with all the Casper, virtual Danish ceramic maker, but a bit more rustic and stuff.

Eric Vildgaard: He made all the plates for Norma. The old Norma. Yeah, very famous for that. And so I know him. So I said, catch what we need.

Tina Vildgaard: Can we get it?

Eric Vildgaard: And he made some very nice plates for us. But, you know, this ceramic big plate is like one style of food you can make in that Cannot do what I do now in these plates. In the same way, it’s sort of like too rustic, a bit too big. And then I was like seeing this Bernardo, the Pacific Rim. The big one.

Tina Vildgaard: Super expensive.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, super expensive.

Pearl Lam: Expensive.

Eric Vildgaard: But I went to j say, oh, I need this one, because all the big chefs are cooking in this one. She said, how much is it? And I said, oh, you can have 10. She said, 10? So it was like, so we need.

Tina Vildgaard: To wash the plate.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, yeah. So I was standing back then. We didn’t have a curtain out or no door to the kitchen. So I was standing and then t was gone. The other blade. Hot water. Wash, wash, wash. Keep it warm under the heat lamps and then play it again. Next dish, next table.

Pearl Lam: The same.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, yeah. So just so. Because we only had 10

Tina Vildgaard: I bet we had 10.

Eric Vildgaard: We had 10. But 10 for 30 guest is not a lot.

Pearl Lam: And that was. That was during your one star programme.

Eric Vildgaard: And then actually they posted a picture from the Michelin guy with our king crab with the muscle foam in that plate and saying how to elevate a dish to mission level. So I had to attend more.

Pearl Lam: But you also upgrade the wine.

Tina Vildgaard: Yes, we did.

Eric Vildgaard: We always, like, we still are now we are three star, but we are.

Tina Vildgaard: Not saving any money.

Eric Vildgaard: No, we are not. We are not trying to. You know, we. We briefly talked about this, perhaps looking for a new location. And you ask why. And I tell you that it’s because we feel we have more to offer. It’s not that the guest experience right now needs any more or do we need More wine. But we want to be always in development, and we feel that we have more to offer. We have reached, in some chef’s opinion, the top and it’s chop. For now, three stars is a benchmark.

Pearl Lam: You have to keep on evolving.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, but, you know, some chefs said, oh, you need to go home and defend it now. I don’t want to defend anything I shouldn’t defend, because if it defending, then, then it’s not strong enough to stand on its own. So, so just keep going the way we are. And then we want, we want to add value to the guest experience. And we, you know, this room, we cannot expand the room. We cannot add more into this room. So everything we can add is on the hospitality and on the food. We’re not in a rush, but we just knew. Know that we’re not done for sure. We’re just getting started. So in our world, we. We only loaded 10% of what we have to. We have achieved 10% of our ambition.

Pearl Lam: Inspiring story. You can tell a lot of parents. No need to get worried about your children.

Eric Vildgaard: None of them. Just send them in a kitchen.

Pearl Lam: Send them in the kitchen.

Eric Vildgaard: And also, I think, like, I, I used to be very rough in my past, and I experienced a lot of bad things and hard things, so I don’t have to. Yeah, but I don’t have to be hard in the kitchen. So I think also that Jona is helping changing the whole industry from within, you know, because this rumour about chefs have to be like, screaming and kicking and, you know, like that, that bad ambience, it doesn’t work like that anymore. It doesn’t.

Tina Vildgaard: It’s different

Pearl Lam: I think nowadays we know about the kitchen is because of the TV series Bear the Bear. Yeah, that’s it.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah. But I think they also paint a very bad image of the. The industry because it’s. It shouldn’t be like that. Of course there’s a high tension in the kitchen when we do service, because, like I say, it’s.

Pearl Lam: Everything is because you want to be fast. You want.

Eric Vildgaard: Yes, but, but, but, you know, the worst source is salted with the sadness. The tears of sadness or the sweat of anxiety. You need to be a happy cook cooking your food. So my, my mission is to. To be a good leader and make people happy around me.

Pearl Lam: Not saying the opposite of your gangster time.

Eric Vildgaard: Yeah, exactly. Because I have been there, been there, done that.

Pearl Lam: Amazing.

Eric Vildgaard: Don’t have to do that anymore.

Pearl Lam: I’m very happy that you two can join me on my podcast. I always say that this restaurant is built out of, founded out of love. And it’s a beautiful story, Eric. Thank you, Tina. Thank you so much. Thank you.