Pearl Lam (林明珠): Hello, this is Pearl Lam Podcast. I’m sitting here in London in my friend’s wonderful apartment and then I’m sitting here with the lovely Cleo Roberts-Komireddi. I just met her this year, actually. This year or last year?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: End of last year, was it?
Pearl Lam (林明珠): End of last year. Very recent. Not even a year of friendship, but the day I met her, I liked her. So, Cleo, can you tell the audience who you are, give us a brief summary about yourself?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Well, I feel like the tables have turned because I first interviewed you for the FT and I’m a writer and I’d say I write about a lot of art and I explore and I’m interested in art from a truly international perspective. So that manifests in me writing articles, books. I have a podcast called Art Worlds and I’ve also sort of spent time doing a PhD which looked at historic forms of representation in India. I think that’s. That’s a brief top line. That’s top line.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Oh, no. But you also give lectures.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: I give lectures. I have been doing some research actually, on maternity sort of pay and things in the art world. So I. Yeah, I. I’m a curious individual, which most people you interview are.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): You’re more than that. Much more. More than that. You study art history.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah, along with anthropology, which I think is kind of key to the way I see the world now.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah, very different because, I mean, first thing is, let’s talk about your studies. Why do you choose artist history first?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: I think actually it chose me. That’s a bit cheesy. But I originally was going to study English linguistics because I loved words. Like, I’ve always been obsessed with words and I’ve always written I was writing poetry. I created a magazine at my primary school. You know, I was always really interested in expressing myself through words, which naturally sort of took me to discover linguistics. But I wanted to go to Durham. They had an amazing course and they cancelled it. So then I ended up doing this programme where you could do modules in art history along with anthropology, kind of a bit more like an American combined. It was called Combined Social Sciences. And that opened my eyes to the importance of not only like material culture, which anthropology sort of focuses on, but also the way we see and the power of seeing. And that’s something that I have to thank one of my lecturers from, for who he’d written about this amazing Russian artist called Natalia Goncharova, who was a really pioneering female artist. And he made me realise that through artwork, through visual expression, we could learn so much about the world and about power that’s embedded within visual structures. So that. That’s kind of. It was my start. And it. And it’s gone on. It’s gone on and on, and it will go on and on.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So let me ask you this question, okay? Modernism. We talk about modernism. Modernism is saying that you cut the past, you cut the history. Let’s restart. Now you study art history. Now we look at the contemporary art. What do you think about, you know, today’s contemporary art? We are talking about conceptual. Conceptual art, which is nothing. They don’t want anything to do with history. I remember there was a curator. There was someone who told me about the art world. Curator coming in and he said to me, you know, this is very interesting. Curator. Because he said, you know, the background is art history. I said, why? He said, you know, today most curator is about, we read psychology, philosophy and sociology. We don’t want to study art history because it detours us to appreciate the concept. Yeah. What do you think about these comments?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Because there’s a lot to unravel there. Yeah, because I think.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Because I argue with that a lot, especially when it relates to Chinese art.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah. So I would. This was gonna be my first point. I think that we are in a world now where we’re more alive and we’ve awoken to the fact that modernism was not just a movement in America. So you’ve got to think about modernism in the most expansive terms. And modernism in America happened a certain time in India, where I’m very familiar with it happened at a totally different time. And it did respond very, very sharply to political circumstances and the past, which included the experience of colonial power.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): But how about modernism in European sense. Because they use the modernism, the word modernism to look at art. Modernism art is to say that this is a new chapter, completely new. Cut all these things about the birth, the baggage of the past, the baggage of history.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Is anything ever new? There’s an amazing psycholinguist called Steven Pinker, and he writes about the fact that our brain relatively has not evolved since man first came about. So I would argue that we are so connected to who we were then. And I mean, that’s why I love history, because I can see our world is really not changed that much. Like, we’re just using different tools. Like. And that’s another of his points, is that, like, our brains really haven’t changed. We’ve just. The things around us often change the tools. But fundamentally, physically, there were theories that we might our thumbs are getting bigger because of all the texting. And that might happen. But again, in the, in the long view, fundamentally, we’re still very connected to who we were. And if you look.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: And like, in terms of. Like. I think about this all the time. Terms. Like we talk about now immersive art. I’m studying cave paintings that were immersive art in their truly original form.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): For the younger generation.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: It’s like. And like, you go to somewhere again, some of these caves that around the world you could walk in, and you are literally immersed. You’re overwhelmed. But you’ve been to many of these caves. Like we talked about it in India, like, Ajanta, like is extraordinary. And these people, you can strike up an emotional connection with them. William Dalrymple writes fantastically about this. You can connect with them. You can see that they were obsessed with the bling. You know, similar to what I might wear. You know, they had dripping. Yeah. And like. And so I find that to be this idea of cutting from past. I think in my worldview is very naive because I also think we inherit a lot.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah. Because I think Chinese art, you know, with our long civilization, you cannot just cut. I mean, I always believe in the Chinese contemporary art, a lot of the artists is evolving from the historical part, evolving to speak about what is happening. And even if they do conceptual on politics, it is an evolution. And how from the imperial China to today.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: And how can you make something that isn’t related to the time you’re in? Like, the materials that are available to you.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Because of the time you’re in. And they also depend on histories and manufacture often sort of like, there’s a fantastic Filipino couple who make works with items that would never have been in their, you know, in the Philippines sort of material circuits had it not been for the politics of, again, colonialism and then the Commonwealth, you know. So.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah. So, Cleo, share with the audience why Indian art? Why you’re so curious about Indian art and you’re going to write a book about it?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So share with us.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: I ask myself that all the time. I think that I went there when I was very young and I was quite literally blown away. And I just, you know, when you enter into something and you’re just scrambling to make sense of it. And I think that’s what really led me onto this path. And there’s also a moment where I visited a performance art space in Goa. It was in a Portuguese, ex-Portuguese villa. Exquisite. Like sort of, you know, kind of ceramic tiles and this pale lemony yellow and all this kind. And inside there are these performance artists. And it was led by an artist who I’ve again followed since I was really young, called Nikhil Chopra, who’s going to be curating the Kochi Biennale this year.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: I’m sure he’s gonna do an amazing job. And here I was faced with works that I had. Had never experienced that sort of shock and emotional reaction that I did when I was in this villa and seeing like, it was like an evening of performances. And I just remember thinking, I don’t really like this, but why don’t I like it? And then also, actually, is that my kind of rejection of it, almost me admitting my ignorance. And I just needed to know more. And then I just talked to people, stayed with artists, have, like, lifelong friends from that experience, and we just unpack the world. And I also think that part of the Indian connection was that gave me a route in. And it’s a very, like, slight route, was the fact that the British were in power there. And, you know, I’ve had people think that I’m from a colonial family, which I’m certainly not. Like, I have a kind of a German background, actually. Actually. And I think that gave me a kind of conduit in. Because I was trying to understand how you overlay these two very different cultures. And it’s not even overlay. Like, it’s a very oppressive, like, distinctly different. Yeah, is it. It’s an oppression. It’s not an overlay. That’s much too generous word. But how did that happen? And then how do you have this country now? It’s. That’s really thriving in many ways. In many ways, it’s really not. And it just. It opened up a world that I just needed to know about.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): But then it’s not just being curious. You actually want to. You are studying the whole Indian art history.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): And Indian art history is substantially and distinctly different from the Renaissance until now.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah, yeah. And it’s had moments of its own flourishing and like, as in, it’s. There are moments in India’s history where people talk about the Bengal Renaissance and. Yeah. It’s so at odds with the touchstones that I would have had in my education in England. And that’s also, like I remember doing a I did. My God, it’s going way back. My undergrad dissertation on Yinka Shonibare, who you’ve worked with. And that, again, what attracted me to his work was that he was so beautifully. And he makes beautiful work, unearthing all these connections that I was never taught about. And you’re still not really taught about. It’s given a very palatable gloss. And so I think there’s a line between that research that I was doing and then doing my PhD when I spent lots of time in India. Yeah, it’s. And it will go on because, you know, the more you discover, the more you realise how ignorant you are.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So we have been talking about the art world. And in general when we last met, and the art world is not exactly very exciting today. And how about in your academic art world? How is it like? Is there quiet time?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: I think I like to be really positive. I generally look the great things. Yeah. But I also recognise that. I think we’re an inflection point where all these wonderful powers and, you know, wonderful phenomena are coming together. So my world, I’m a woman of the printed word and I hold on to that very dearly. You know, I’ve got, you know, piles of books everywhere. They’re stored at anyone’s house, so I can get some books in. There are books there. But I recognise that the way we’re consuming information is changing the way information is being produced, like knowledge. I think you have to, you know, make a difference between knowledge and, like, wisdom and understanding and being able to synthesise all this information that we’re being fed. So in terms of writing in academia, I think, like I say, I’m a recovering academic because I didn’t take on an institutional role. I was very clear that I couldn’t do that because I recognised that the things that I loved about learning were really not being, they were being, like, very rapidly devalued. And you see this now like an academic lifestyle is really difficult to maintain if you’re, if you’re part of the younger God.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): It’s difficult to maintain, is it? Because there’s the job opportunities. Is very. I mean, there’s less job opportunities?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: And I think especially in the arts, like, you’ve got to think about, if you think about education as a whole, the arts are, you know, so far down on the agenda. And, and I, I, yeah, do appreciate why in many respects, like in many countries, there are sort of more practical, you know, people sort of first and foremost want to solve kind of medical problems. I totally understand that. But there’s still room for art and creative thinking. And I think, I would also think that a lot of the skills you learn when you’re studying art, like the sort of visual analysis, are so important across many, many different industries.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Okay. Today we have AI, right?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So does this AI help you? I mean, what is it? I mean, I mean, we were talking about the impact of technology, the impact of AI. What do you think? What’s your comments on it?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: I mean, obviously we all use it all the time.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah. Do you think that AI would be taking over?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: I think there’s so much we don’t know.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So we don’t know.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: The head of DeepMind, he gave a really great interview, like, very candid. He won a Nobel recently. Fine. But what came across was that it’s all speculation, like so much of this. And Tim Berners Lee, who, you know, was the kind of father of the Internet as we know it, he years ago wrote an open letter saying, like, we’ve really got to understand about regulation, about ethics. Like, none of us planned for this. None of us imagined that the Internet, let alone AI, would get to the stage it’s got at and then to retrospectively, you know, plug all the holes. That’s a thankless job. So AI, like, I think it’s unavoidable and I think obviously everyone, I mean.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Of course we should not avoid, I mean, technology advancement. We should actually take advantage of it.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): And it has helped and see, you know, how much we can take advantage. And then what is the ethics point? Because yesterday I was reading that now AI is, you know, American military is getting AI to make weapons and get into war. So it becomes a very dangerous thing. But we’re going back to this, to the technology, because I think now it’s like the lowest of lowest in the art market. So everyone is looking at technology, the impact of and off technology. But a lot of people is thinking that wow, what is, we can’t see the end. So people are getting nervous.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): At the same time they feel that because there’s such a huge technology advancement, we don’t know where we stand. You don’t know how do you really need a gallery or do you not and not need a gallery? These are these basic questions. What are your thoughts about it?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: So I was reading a report the other day I’ve been very interested in when the USB report came out. Obviously they identified that the top ends of the market are really struggling. But then there’s this like been this efflorescence at the lower end with prints and things. And there’s this very interesting company called Avante Art who do prints for by like big name artists. Like they did Grayson Perry and I think they’ve done recently with Carrie Mae Weems. I think. So anyway, they do these prints and what they’re finding is that within 24 hours they can sell enough prints to donate a million pounds to LACMA. Okay. So that’s technology. Like that’s a form of technology being used really positively in the art world. Yeah. And then they also say that their clients who now identify themselves as art collectors really value museum experiences.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): No, but I, you know, I talked to several museums, their museums today they are saying that the younger generation, the GenZ they are not visiting because they want immersive experience. So every of these big, big, big museum who used to do, who used to show Renaissance or the opening, they all started to do some very popular artists show so that to attract the Gen Z. All Gen Z wants is, is immersive art. I mean they’re not so interested.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Possibly.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Oh yeah.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: I mean but, I say what’s wrong with that?
Pearl Lam (林明珠): There’s nothing wrong. I think, you know, you know, the world evolved, taste evolved.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): And then, and then, and then of course the museum are getting very worried because they can’t sell the tickets. They’re worried about patron. They worry about a lot of things.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah, yeah. And like the recent Tate data that came out a few weeks ago and like Tate Modern, Maria Balshaw identified that their biggest area where they’re seeing problems of bounce back figures is that younger generation.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah. Because younger generation love to visit team lab.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Because it’s all those immersive experiences. All right. And then, and then now they don’t want to. So all the museum are now finding pop. They want popular artists to draw.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah, yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): The visitors.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: So like who would you consider so like a Team lab.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): You know, in the, in. In the Bath Holburne Museum last year they have. Mr. Doodle, they said that they never have so many visitors.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So all the achievements, changing the direction because they do need younger. Younger generation, younger visitors. Just because the older, you know. And also the younger visitors has to be. You know, in the west there’s a lot of people, there’s a. There’s a big study saying that the younger generation in the west, they don’t want to pay. They don’t. You know, if the parents give them a huge collection, they’re most likely to sell everything because they don’t want to pay the insurance. They don’t want to have the time to manage it. They don’t want it. So what they want is they rather to fly around the world to have this great experiences than to look after or manage the collection. So that is changing. That’s a generational shift in Northern America and Western Europe. That’s a big shift. I look at my part and of the world because they don’t inherit from the Paris. They want to build their own collection. They’re going back to good old days. Europe or America.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So the question. So I always said that there will be a geographical change – sshift as well. But people are getting very worried in the art world because no one can see the end.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah. So I think that’s the great wealth transfer which obviously the art market are very concerned about because like their collective base. That is going to be fascinating.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): And also the museums are worried that these younger generation is not going to get donate. Yeah.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: To do. Yeah. And the patronage and I think also.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): The patronage money is all dried. This is the whole big worried about the big art world today.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: And I think especially in the UK right now we’re in a hot mess because a lot of people.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): The government has cut the fundings.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah. And the patronage that a lot of these places relied on, a lot of the people who supplied that are also leaving the UK and often you want to support something that you can frequent, whereas, you know, if you’re not here, you’re less likely to support. So they’re gonna. Yeah. People are gonna have to I suppose be more innovative. But I would argue well that the sort of going the physical experience like as I said, you know, maybe I’m a romantic, but the physics experience, I think you. That won’t ever change whether you’re going to an immersive experience. You’re still going somewhere, you’re still travelling somewhere. So that is a positive to me, it is positive. People aren’t lost in there.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): No, but immersive and coming to a museum, seeing paintings, putting in the wall is very different.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah, yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): But then so are the museum. Do you think the museum is going to adapt. Adapt to that?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Well, if you look in London at the moment.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Immersive exhibition is very expensive.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah, yeah. And they have. We have like. We also have experiences that definitely aren’t art. So when David Hockney does his immersive experience, it’s not an art. I don’t think people in the art world see it as an art exhibition per se. And they have, you know, dinosaurs on at the moment in that same room.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Dinosaurs people would visit because. Because it’s for the family affairs. Right.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: But then I also think that maybe we also have to go a bit further, like down the kind of chain about art education, which has also been, you know, relatively decimated in this country and in, you know, other countries. It’s not, you know, we were lucky that we had it as part of a state curriculum in other countries that isn’t even like on the table type thing. So I think also that if you’re not exposed to how magical an experience with art can be, then you are going to be less likely to appreciate a painting on a wall. Like.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): No, but, but a lot of people buying painting doesn’t mean that they appreciate painting in a wall. It’s about social circle; it’s about the ego.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): And there’s many, many different reasons for them to. And to collect. But today, because of these changes. Because of technology impact, everybody’s like this. And of course the economy, this has a big impact, right?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yes. And also the, I mean. Yeah. Ideas of museums as well come from a very specific location in the world and from a very specific time. And I also find that really funny that we’re still obsessed with the idea of museums. And like, I’ve been working with people and talking to them. Like in India there’s this flourishing of private museum, I mean, across the world. Georgina Adam wrote a brilliant book about it, the rise and rise of private museums. Like, you know, people want museums, I think. But we could do other things, couldn’t we?
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah, but what do you think? Is it. I mean, many people said that. When do you think that art will resurrect? When I always say that when the economy resurrects.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Art will resurrect.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Or is it changing? You know, like, is it.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): I mean, it is changing. It is changing because I think change is a must because the Whole world is changing.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah. I mean, changing. Yeah. I mean, we’re, you know, on a fundamental level, we’re changing all the time, physically. But I suppose the thing that I think people are very excited about at the moment in the art market is, you know, the few kind of dealers, particularly in America, who are shutting up shop after having very long, fantastic careers. And Tim Schneider wrote a brilliant piece in the FT recently about this idea of the age of empire being over. And are we actually now building much more local communities? And so are we going to see that restructuring? And I know from, like, places in London that are like the really young galleries, like, they are doing things, you know, with their.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): How did he survive?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: I don’t know. I admire them so much. It’s, you know…
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Even leading galleries are closing down, you know, must be so tough.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah. And maybe, you know. Yeah. I. I really. I have so much admiration. I would not want to be a gallerist, especially now. But you. I think the great thing is that the art world won’t. It won’t stop. It will just reconfigure. And then you have to sort of be astute and find your place within that which, you know. Pearl, come on. You’ve seen. You’ve seen, you know, oscillations, you’ve seen contractions, you’ve seen expansion.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): No. Okay. It’s true, because high and low. I mean, every economy, there’s up and low. But this time it’s extremely, very difficult because no one actually can see the end; can see the light. So that is why people has been talking about it. People doesn’t want to admit about it, but Art Fairs, they have suspended several exhibitions. Yeah. Which is true because it reflect the economy.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: People were very excited about Taipei and like the collectors that were being built there. I totally appreciate that. And then we talk about, you know, Singapore, which you’re very familiar with. Like, there’s a. You know, you have these moments. The art world is just so fantastic about doing the hype and. Because it’s such a unregulated world.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: And nothing’s verified. Like, all these sales reports. I mean, people could. Dealers could be plucking these numbers out of thin air, and I suspect some of them do.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Absolutely.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: But there’s no. There’s no authority, like, there’s no kind of financial services authority to say, you know, this is not, you know, you’re inflating your business. And I mean, that’s also what is very attractive, that it’s still relatively lawless.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Okay. Your book, you’re wonderful in it. Every time I WhatsApp you, you would say to me, I’m coming to London. I’m coming to central London to do research on my book. Tell me more about it. I know you’re curious. You love India. What is this book about?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: So this book is as someone described it as, my life’s work, which hopefully it’s not, because I want to be doing more work after this. But it’s a book that Yale have commissioned and so it’s a university press, but interestingly. And what I appreciate is that they want it for a general audience because.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Not for academics.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: No, like, it’s with the academic rigour, as they say, but for a general audience, because what you find, and when I do my research for my podcast and things, is that in so many parts of the world, there are no kind of art history books. There’s no sort of. There isn’t a one kind of continuous narrative. And I recognise the problematics of that as well. But it’s going to be a sort of short dip into Indian art so someone can pick it up and hopefully go on this.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): How many?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Oh, I mean, I work on work so big, like maybe a bit kind of that size.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Because Indian art is very profound. I mean, there are so many. So many regions.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): I mean, there’s a lot of history.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So, yeah, you may want to have volume one and volume two, Volume three.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I know. And like, the way it’s going, it will be an extended project, but. But it’s. Yeah, it’s trying to condense that actually is very hard because for every sort of paragraph, I will have read, you know, papers and papers and papers and books and things.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): So when did this Indian art start? Is it old?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Oh, yeah, I’m starting from prehistory. So some of the kind of. Yeah. The first cave paintings.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): It’s not enough. You have to have volumes.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah. But what I’ve got to keep is that it’s. It’s to keep someone engaged. Like, I, you know, I’ve been stuck, you know, I’ve done my academic time in academia. Those books are not the type of thing that you want to take on holiday with you, that’s for sure. And like, hopefully this can be a type of book that you pick up and, you know, maybe as a student who’s curious about something you might have talked about. Talked about, they’ll pick it up and be like, oh, wow. And then they want to go on to more. So that’s always my intention. Is like, open something up and that hopefully it will lead people on these paths.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Amazing. You’ve been writing with for all the magazines, all the newspaper and all that. How did it all start?
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Because I wrote to people asking them if I could write about Indian art. And then it just. I started writing for Art Asia Pacific, which is an amazing magazine. And then I reached more people and I just kept on sort of knocking on doors saying, can I write for you? And I often it’s quite hard because, you know, if you look at the pages of the newspapers and magazines here, they’re very much London centric. Like, you might get something in Edinburgh, but the meat of it is London centric. So I’m always like, thrilled when I can write about things from other parts of the world in these publications.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): I was very impressed when I saw all these media you’ve been writing. You’ve been writing for.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Yeah, it’s kind of. You just, you know, when you’ve. You have it, I think, like when you have. You found your thing and you just want to go for it and like, you know [your passion]. Yeah. And like, I think again, like most people that you would speak to on this podcast, it’s like you’re just going for it. Like, everything is kind of framed around what you get to make your living from. Absolutely amazing. It’s really amazing.
Pearl Lam (林明珠): Cleo, what a nice session that I have with you. A nice talk, a nice podcast. We will have to have lunch again, [have a dance], and we will talk, we will explore more. Thank you so much for your time.
Cleo Roberts-Komireddi: Thank you.
