Pearl Lam: Welcome to the Pearl Lam podcast. Today we have Sam Cox, who is Mister Doodle. We are at my gallery, Pearl Lam Galleries, where we have Mister Doodle in space. So Mister Doodle has created this solo exhibition, creating a narrative about Mister Doodle and Mrs Doodle went to space, and during this journey to space he met with different monsters which he created. And later on he was invaded by his twin brother, Doctor Scribble. He defeated Doctor Scribble and he and Mrs Doodle has the little baby Elsie and live happily ever after. So, may I introduce Mister Doodle and Sam, please give a little brief about yourself again to audience who would not have known you.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, I’m Sam Cox and I call myself Mister Doodle. I’m a doodler from southeast England, and I just love to Doodle, like as much of the day as possible and just try and doodle on everything I possibly can. And that’s really what my work’s about. That’s kind of who I am.

Pearl Lam: In the traditional or the conventional art galleries, we usually have artists who is from the traditional training, they went to art school and then they start working with showing their art in different exhibition, and then start with the small galleries, and then they gradually go and went to a big galleries and shown the work to showing their word internationally. And then they have their own collectors who would go there and, and go to these galleries or some younger galleries to find young artists. But you is very different. I have collectors from everywhere. I mean, collectors whom I never meth. And they are usually not conventional art collectors. Some of them actually are first time buyers. And if not, they have been collecting works, which of course, because you are the only artist. I mean, now you started us doing all these popular, I mean, all these animations, very cutie with art, with narrative. But these are whole group of new collectors who loves your work because they were on social media. I never realized that there’s so many people on social media and media. What is your feeling about it?

Mr Doodle: I think that lots of people that their way of like digesting art or finding new art is through social media now. I guess because people are very busy and not everyone has time to go to galleries to be introduced to new things now. So they check their phone and they’ll find something new on Instagram or Facebook or something. And because my stuff got shared on different pages and everything, I guess that’s how a lot of people kind of found my work and I, and started to follow it. And I guess it’s kind of bringing in people who maybe they might not go into galleries and museums for whatever reason, really. But it’s just kind of bringing those people into the art world. And then I think it’s great kind of process of sort of attracting or sort of relating to people around the world.

Pearl Lam: But I’m very surprised because I always have collectors who like to collect art, conceptual art, because they talk about, you know, the society, the urban development, the politics. But now I have a whole group of collectors who just want to have your work there because they’re happy. They just want to be happy. They said, oh, after long days work, I don’t want to think about it. I don’t want to read anything. I come in and I see, see Mister Doo doo’s work. It just gives me joy and happiness. I mean, it’s something which is pretty incredible because we don’t need to pretend to be deep.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, well, I guess that, you know, like for some people that is their reaction because we’re so, we’re often so like surrounded by like news and things that, you know, tell you all this, like what’s going on in politics or what tragic things are going on in the world. And for some people, their response to that isn’t to, to purchase or collect a piece of work that tells that story or tells that narrative they listening to on the news and stuff or something, or says something about it. They just want something that feels like an escape or, you know, just, just makes them smile that has no agenda or any, doesn’t tell them like which way to think or which side to be on. It’s just.

Pearl Lam: And also children loves your work. Remember the first day, the opening night? There was this little boy, five years old, was actually kneeling down to the mother. Please, please, please buy this work. Me?

Mr Doodle: Please.

Pearl Lam: This is incredible. It’s incredible. I forgot to ask you one important thing is now you’re like a rock star. First thing. And was told by my staff, first night you arrived in Hong Kong, you went to a hawker, hawker store already was sitting down. There were people coming to you and asking you whether you’re Mister Doodle, asking you to sign. And then, and then what happened? The owner of the hawker, Scott, came and asked my staff, who’s this person? Is this a movie star? And then he took your picture he sent to his daughter. And then he came and said, oh, he’s the artist, and the daughter breathing and he didn’t even want to charge, charge you on the mill. And then, yeah, they were utterly surprised. And then the other day when we were in K Eleven was swarmed by people. We have two bodyguards for you. We were all taken aback, and today you’re going to empty out. And myself said that you need four bodyguards. I never seen an artist who would have four bodyguards. You’re like a rock star. What’s your take about it? Me is the first time I have an artist as an artist. Artists that do. Who do do.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. Yeah, I guess it’s kind of funny, really. It just feels kind of surreal, really. But I just. Yeah, I love those interactions with, like, meeting people and just, you know, just, like, shaking someone’s hand who’s come to see the performance or see the work and just. And, like, telling them, you know, thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate it. And just giving them a big smile and trying to make them feel, like, warm and, you know, treating everyone exactly the same, no matter who they are, and just, like, making sure they know how grateful I am that they support the work and stuff, because I think it’s a great position to be in, because when someone comes up to you and you can tell they’re excited to meet me and stuff, I feel like I can really, like, make their day, you know, like, make them really happy that day and make them go home to their families and feel really, like, full of joy and stuff. And I love that feeling of being able to do that. And I always try and try and give that to them.

Pearl Lam: At three years old, you start to draw, and then you were copying cartoons. And what sort of cartoons were you doing?

Mr Doodle: I was watching a lot of, like, the Simpsons on tv and also a cartoon called SpongeBob SquarePants, and I used to copy these cartoons, but most of my inspiration came from video games mostly.

Pearl Lam: But three years old.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just, you know, I would sit and draw things, but I didn’t really like drawing sort of what was kind of in front of me in real life, you know, like, outside in the garden or, like, trees or flowers and stuff. I used to, like drawing things from the tv screen and, like, these kind of cartoonish, sort of vibrant, colorful animals and made up creatures and things.

Pearl Lam: But you have two brothers and one older brother, don’t you? Beating each other up as boys are? I mean, playing guns, pistols? I mean, what is it? What, did your elder brother do that when you were painting? You know, don’t you have a conversation?

Mr Doodle: Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Like, we. I mean, when I was, you know, really young, we didn’t just. I didn’t just draw all the time. I also, like, we used to make kind of funny films and stuff. And often I’d be, like, holding the camera and my two brothers would kind of act something out, and we’d make up a little story, and we just sort of made funny stuff that wasn’t very, you know, like, it was just kids, like, imagining things and being imaginary characters. And, like, we’d run around and sometimes my younger brother, he’d, like, pretend to jump out the window of the upstairs of our house and, like, fall to the ground, and we’d do sort of funny things that. Well, it was really badly filmed and stuff, but it was kind of a lot of fun, you know?

Pearl Lam: But at five years, though, you start doodling yourself, right? Just doodle without copying. When do you stop? Stop, I mean, copying other cartoons and start creating by yourself.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. So I was copying these cartoons for a long time, and then I started wanting to see these, like, video game characters, like, in different stories that didn’t exist. So I started drawing them, like, in new settings and stuff. And then that led to me, like, designing my own characters and thinking, oh, you know, I want this guy to be, like, the main character or this guy and stuff. And then I started drawing my own things, and then it really became this sort of doodle kind of style with lots of different characters all at once. When I was about 15 years old.

Pearl Lam: Yeah. And then I understand that when we had a conversation, you were a really great businessman, because at 13 years old, you start doodling on t shirts and selling it, and then you save up all your money to be spending in your university to get art supplies, to get food. I mean, you are real good business man. How do you. I mean, does all your friends wanted to have a doodle t shirt?

Mr Doodle: Yeah. Yeah. The first one I did was, like, I drew this city, and it was all kind of, like, polluted. There was, like, steam and stuff everywhere and smoke and stuff, and there was all these, like, mechanical machines and things. I love to draw, like, really busy images. So that’s the kind of things I was drawing. I did it onto, like, a white t shirt. And what I did was I drew it out, and then I made, because I didn’t have, like, a printer or anything like that. I sort of cut it out with a knife, like a scalpel knife, and I made it into a stencil, and I sprayed these t shirts with, like, the design and then sort of sold it to my friends and other people and stuff. It was only, like, five pounds or something, but the t shirt cost me, like, one pound per t shirt. And then. Then I would sell it for five pounds and stuff.

Pearl Lam: So how many t shirts did you sell to support all your three years university art supply and food?

Mr Doodle: Well, I didn’t just sell the t shirts. I also, the more, the thing that brought me more money was I used to sell like sweets at school as well.

Pearl Lam: So what do you mean by selling sweets? You just buying.

Mr Doodle: I used to buy like chocolate bars, like in bulk, and I’d go into school and like sell chocolate bars and fizzy drinks and stuff to the kids.

Pearl Lam: My God, you are real businessman. How do you get all those wholesale prices?

Mr Doodle: Well, it’s weird actually, because it was actually cheaper to go to the local supermarket and I used to buy the multi pack bars that say you’re not supposed to sell them individually and stuff that was actually cheaper than going to buy it in the big cutting cost places and stuff. And so I did that. And I did that for probably three years and saved up sort of about 5000 pounds and that helped support me. Wow.

Pearl Lam: Well, what is, what amazes me was when you do your childhood series, let me explain to the, to the audience what is the childhood series? He has his parents save up all the sketches that he made since you were three years old or whatever. And then, and then you take all these sketches and you reinterpret it as today, which for me is really amazing that your parents actually give you such support, saving all the sketches. So from young, did your parents actually see you as an artist?

Mr Doodle: Well, they knew, like, I think they really know immediately understood how much I loved to draw because I would do it quite a lot and I’d go to, you know, my bedroom and just, I’d spend hours just by myself just drawing and stuff. And then I’d come down and show them and there’d be like quite an obsessive amount of, you know, drawings of cartoons and characters and things. And I don’t think any of us really knew, like, where it was going, but they would just support my kind of passion for it and they thought, you know, like, I sort of had kind of like a talent for it, I guess, in some way, even though it wasn’t very good when I first started. But then as we got, as I got older, I kind of thought maybe I’d be like a designer for like cartoons on tv or like video games or something.

Pearl Lam: You never thought that you would become an artist?

Mr Doodle: No, because I didn’t really know that, like, I could do this as an artist because I didn’t. I was really, I didn’t know many artists in my life. Like, I didn’t look at that much. Like I didn’t go to that many galleries or anything. Went to, you know, a few. But I was kind of sheltered, I guess, from a lot of like, what was out there.

Pearl Lam: Because your family has none of you, none of your family members are into art anyways.

Mr Doodle: Not really, no.

Pearl Lam: That’s why.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. But then when I got to being about 15 years old and then my teacher Morgan, he, he showed me like all these street artists and old like pop artists and things and, and suddenly I was like, oh, wow, you know, they, they can actually do like this kind of thing for, you know, a career and stuff. And, and that was really kind of exciting for me. And then I sort of started to see it in a totally different way. And then from then on, I just put everything I could into trying to make it work and stuff.

Pearl Lam: By the way, for all the audience, I want to stress on one thing is Mister Doodle’s art teacher Morgan is now at Mister Dudo’s studio as the artistic director. And then he’s now advising on many things that Mister Dudo is doing, especially with the prints.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, me and Morgan have been, we would always talk, you know, even after I left school and we would text each other and I’d send him like pictures of what I was doing and like the latest animations I’ve been making and he’d always try and advise me and give me like suggestions for where it could go and push it to the next level and stuff. And, and then one day I just thought, I was asking him actually, like, you know, it was a summer holiday and it was just after like my wedding and their school was on their summer break and stuff. And I said, are you looking forward to going back to school and stuff? And he said, you know, I’m looking forward to working with the kids and stuff, but a lot of the administration stuff getting a bit like on my nerves and stuff. And I said, oh, you know, if you ever thinking of making a change, like, we’d love to work with you and everything. And sort of from there, we just kind of really excited about the idea and it’s been really great since. And it’s really cool because, you know, he’s sort of, he’s not like my teacher anymore.

Pearl Lam: He’s like a 15 years old. Your art teacher. I love that.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. And he’s more like a friend now and we get along really well and, and I don’t, you know, always take every suggestion he has.

Pearl Lam: Of course, it’s all about discussion.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, yeah. But I think we just had these very inspirational conversations and they tend to bleed into what I do later on and stuff.

Pearl Lam: Okay, so next up, I mean, you, you were in a university, you studied illustration, and from illustration, how did you come to become an artist? So you were participating in street art. You didn’t even have a galleries, right. You didn’t even understand what galleries were because you were telling me that you were doing some record covers. Yeah, I mean, please share it with the audience, which is really interesting.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, sure. So I didn’t, yeah, I was pretty like clueless about the art world, really. Like I thought, you know, galleries were places that you just like, rent for to show your work and stuff. I didn’t know that, you know, galleries like, represented artists and worked with them to, you know, further their career and things like that. So I really, my experience was very limited, but I didn’t really let that intimidate me and stuff. So I just sort of tried to get my work out there in many different ways. And often I was quite interested in hip hop music and I would approach musicians like local in the UK and stuff, and I’d ask them if I could make a music video for them. And I’d sort of take these characters, I’d draw and turn them into animations and stuff. And I’d spend maybe like five or six months on each of these projects and they would be very kind of time consuming. And then I’d make these sort of three minute videos with the sort of characters and things. And I’d also design like album covers for people and stuff like that. And it wasn’t really like they didn’t pay me to do it, but I just tried to do it to get my work seen out there and stuff.

Pearl Lam: And how was it? I mean, how was it? Do you get a lot of records you were doing? You were making, designing and all that? Was it a really great business and exposure for you?

Mr Doodle: To be honest, not really. I enjoyed it and I thought it would go somewhere, but it didn’t really do all that much to get me out there. In the end, I liked the work and I was proud of it and stuff, but really what got me recognized was later on when I started wearing the doodle suit and going out into the public and like performing in front of people rather than like doing these things like in my room or in my studio and then putting it out on the Internet. It was more these things that I did like in, in real situations where people could come and see me I’m.

Pearl Lam: Really surprised that when you went to school, you know, like, illustration, no one actually told you that you could have joined a gallery. Okay. Johnny and Gary is very difficult, but at least it’s the first step to, to expose your work. And how did you then become a street artist?

Mr Doodle: I mean, I guess what it was is that when I studied illustration, you know, and the tutors were great, and I still stay in touch with them and stuff, but the course wasn’t really about, like, people becoming, like, artists or fine artists and stuff. So they didn’t really talk about galleries or representation in that way. It was more like helping people get a lot of focus was on, like, drawing things for, like, children’s books or illustrating text, like, people giving you text and then you responding. It was responding to it with a visual. And that would be books or posters or often, like, illustrations for newspaper articles and things. And what I was doing was starting to go off on a different path, but I didn’t want to change course, but tutors would try and support me in the best way possible. But we didn’t really know, like, what it was that I was going to become. We just wanted to see where it would go and stuff. And, and then I did a lot of, like, murals out in the, in the public, like, street art and stuff.

Pearl Lam: When you say street art, you don’t have a license to do it. You just. You just create graffiti, basically.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, early on.

Pearl Lam: Right.

Mr Doodle: It was like that, yeah. Like, I used to go out with some of my friends, and we go out maybe at nighttime and stuff and paint on things that we weren’t really supposed to paint on and stuff. And then I got in trouble for it when I was about 19 years old, and I was drawing on these signs, like, just drawing little characters and stuff, and I got, like, caught doing it. And then since then, I kind of, I never did that anymore. And then I just moved into the realm of kind of trying to find a space that someone would allow me to draw on. So I’d approach lots of, like, fast food places, and I’d say, like, can I draw on your wall? And I’ll draw, like, you know, pictures of burgers or things that relate to the business somehow, and in return, they’d, you know, give me food for, like, a week or something.

Pearl Lam: Did you, did you doodle your parents house? Everything. Did you destroy your parents house?

Mr Doodle: Well, I wanted to doodle their house. They let me doodle my bedroom, and they give me bits of furniture to do. And one time they let me do the downstairs bathroom, but I had to cover it in paper so it wasn’t permanent and stuff. But they were very supportive. If I said, I’ve got an idea, they try and make it work without any permanent damage and stuff, but it made me just dream of having my own place later on where I could fully cover with which you did.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, but it’s very surprising when I start working with you, is then we find out that all the things that you were doing on the war and all that, and people want to knock down the war to sell and to put the war into auction. It’s like one of the cars that you did, which is a caravan, which you did for your friends, and then later on it was chopped into different pieces and was in the auction, which is pretty. I mean, how do you feel about it? Do you feel that, you know, it’s a positive feeling or you feel that is taking advantage?

Mr Doodle: Well, I mean, when I did that caravan, it was for. I just left university and it was almost like ten years ago. And my friend said, I said to him, I was like, I really want to paint as many walls and objects and things as I can. And he said, you know, we’ve got this caravan and he’s always had it in his garden. You can paint it if you want. And I said, oh, great, I’ll do that. And it stayed there for, like, five years. And I just painted it and made a video out of it and shared it and stuff. And then in 2020, when the auction sales and my work started to go up and things started to go to auction, my friend, like, he saw that and he was like, oh, you know, is it all right, you know, if we sell the caravan and stuff? And I was like, yeah, of course, it’s your caravan. And I wanted to help him and I. He’s one of my best friends, so, you know, I really thought it was nice and everything. So he put his caravan onto eBay and I think he put it up for like 30,000 pounds or something and someone saw it and said, you know, I’ll pay you 10,000 pounds for it, but I want to cut it up and I want to, like, because it had gone quite old and, like, moldy and stuff, so they had to, like, fix it up with paint and things. And he, and he asked me, is that okay? And I said, yeah, it’s fine. And I signed something to allow it to happen. So he sold it for 10,000 pounds and then only 10,000 pounds. Yeah. But he was really happy because him and his family, like, split it between, I think, five of them and they all had some money. And then. But then, like, I guess it was probably six months later or something, it came up at Christie’s and then.

Pearl Lam: And then it was chopped into different pieces.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. And it was selling for, like, hundreds of thousands. And my friend, he just. He was, like, texting me and saying, oh, no, like, I’m so sad because he’s, you know, it was hundreds.

Pearl Lam: I mean, exactly.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. So it was. It was a good feeling to help him. But then when it went on to do that, I was still excited that my work achieved that price. But. And then. But then I think now it’s kind of kickstarted, this thing where all these murals are done in the past.

Pearl Lam: Yeah. People want to knock down the wall.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: And send the war to be auctioned.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: I mean.

Mr Doodle: I mean, it’s kind of a bit of a shame in some ways, because there were creatures.

Pearl Lam: Yeah. Because it was for the wall.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. And they’re meant to be, like, enjoyed in public spaces. I mean, the caravan’s a bit different because it was like a private space, but usually these walls are, you know, on the street or in someone’s, like, public space and it’s meant to be there to be seen by people, and then it ends up being chopped down and never seen again stuff.

Pearl Lam: So do you enjoy doing live performances in public?

Mr Doodle: Yeah, I love doing live performances. Yeah. That’s my favorite thing to do, I think. Yeah.

Pearl Lam: Your favorite thing. So today you must be very excited because today we are doing. Sam is doing a live performance at the MTR. MTR, which is the metro, the two station. But you are collaborating with children.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: So the children. And you are going to doodle on a spaceship.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, yeah. It’s going to be really cool because it ties in perfectly with this new exhibition with the spaceship. And I think doing things, you know, in public, in really busy public areas, like a train station, is really exciting because you just get, like, anyone will walk past, you know, and you’re kind of bringing people into the gallery somehow because lots of people don’t go into galleries and museums and stuff like how I didn’t when I was a kid, but, you know, I’d go into train stations, so. And everyone does. So, like, it’s the way of reaching just like kind of everyone from any walk of life and stuff. So that’s what really excites me.

Pearl Lam: So, you know, since you become making more money, it’s what impresses me is that you are actually given back to society you do things for the children charity, and this spaceship is going to be donated to the. And actually you donated to MTR and NTR in terms donated to make a wish for the children’s charity. Why children’s charity? Why not other charity?

Mr Doodle: Well, you know, there’s lots of charities that I think are good and stuff, but I like the children’s charities because, well, when I first did it, I did a doodle marathon for 50 hours once.

Pearl Lam: 50 hours? What do you mean by Doodle Marathon?

Mr Doodle: We did a couple of them and me and my friend from Norwich, we find these shops and we’d cover it with paper, and we’d draw over the paper, and I’d draw for, like, 50 hours, and he’d sit and watch the whole thing and film it and stuff. And then we cut up the paper into pieces and we’d sell them. And all the money would go to this place called the Teapot Trust, which helps kids with, like, chronic illness. And they do, like, art therapy with them and just try and have, like, a nice time and let them express themselves and just give them the space to be open and creative and something about that charity, really, I liked that, you know, like, helping kids. And kids are so kind of, like, innocent and nice and honest and pure. And I just think it’s nice to do something for kids because a lot of their work is. As much as people think it mostly appeals to children and things, I think it’s often enjoyed by kind of adults as well and stuff. And I think it’s nice to do something that directly links to kids because that’s. That’s kind of the time of my life where I fell in love with this sort of type of art and stuff.

Pearl Lam: So, yeah, I mean, do you think that doodling and they. So this meditative, your OCD drawings is a kind of art therapy?

Mr Doodle: Yeah, I guess so, yeah. I mean, when I. I don’t really think intentionally like that, but, like, when I do draw and I just draw for, like, 12 hours and without, like, a break or something and just keep going and get lost in my world, I sort of lose sense of time and even lose sense of, like, where I am. Even if I’m at home or even doing a performance in front of people, I might just kind of switch off to where I am and I just get lost in this world. And I think it is like a kind of meditative state or therapy.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, because psychobord is floor art, Mark. Psychopath.

Mr Doodle: Oh, right. Yeah, yeah.

Pearl Lam: So, so you do think that this help you to. Because you’re focused. You’re focusing. And it is a sort of therapy because you’re not thinking about all others stress or, you know, you’re not being attacked by stress or think other and other concerns or worries and all that.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, I just have a really happy time when I create the work, and I feel really fulfilled, filled in myself, and that’s the sort of emotion that I want to express when I draw. So hopefully it translates to other people when they feel similarly when they look at the work.

Pearl Lam: Because, you know, popular art, mister Dudo, you are today, you are judged by the popular culture. You have an Instagram, 2.9 million people following you, which is really a very different way of a traditional or conventional art world. Conventional art world is always judged by curators, art critics, and we’re talking conceptual art, which is about politics, society, philosophy, urban development. But your work specifically, I remember when we were talking, your work is not about politics, is not about society. Your work is, by is giving a narrative. You built in this narrative, and you, you know, you do whatever it comes to your mind. So at any point, I remember whenever we asked you specifically, and you stress that you don’t want your work to be linked with politics.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: So do you care about the conventional art world, the judgment of the conventional art world?

Mr Doodle: I think I just. I don’t know. I just care more about, like, what I think about myself and whether I can go to sleep, like, happy that night with, like, what I created and, you know, what? Like, what I did that day and whether I feel like I did a good day’s work and whether I feel like. I felt like I was expressing myself that day and not what other people might want me to do and stuff. And. And, yeah, I kind of don’t. I don’t want, like, really don’t want my artwork to have any kind of message at all, really. I just want it to be, you know, that is the sort of message, is that there is no message. And it’s sort of meant to be just enjoyable to everyone, like, for or to anyone, you know, to anyone from any place on earth or any walk of life. And I just want them to be able to, you know, see something that they recognize and just smile at it. And that’s kind of the sort of purpose of it, I guess.

Pearl Lam: This brings you, this brings me to ask you and discuss about the general feelings whenever people sees your work. And they, they say, oh, this is Keith Haring. He’s copying Keith. Keith Haring.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: So I always say that Kiefer many of the drawings that he does, he’s talking about the social, the social issues about he being and homosexual and all these other issues. But yours is completely different because you create these little creatures and you have your monsters. I’m seeing all these and you have Mister Dudo together. You are actually creating a story in your mind, and it’s purely for aesthetic and to have joyfulness. Am I right?

Mr Doodle: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I love Keith Heron’s art, obviously, and stuff, but it’s not the sort of social commentary or political aspect that brings me to him. You know, it’s that what speaks to me really is the, the way I watch videos of him work and the way it just feels like a flow from another universe coming out of his hand. And he just creates lines and shapes and it just flows and there’s no sketch, there’s no hesitation. It just comes out. And that’s what relates to me. And I think the content of the work is very different and the reason for it ultimately is the most different thing.

Pearl Lam: I. Yeah, but when you start drawing with such confidence, do you feel like that this is like, what, I mean, this is what you learned from Keith Henry or you have developed it since you were, you were a child?

Mr Doodle: Well, I mean, I like, I kind of was doing this sort of thing for a while before I was, like, introduced to his work, but when I saw it. And then you resonate. Yeah. Morgan would show me and stuff, and then I’d realize we kind of do it. We’ve got something very similar here. And then I’d look into his work and use it as a reference point and think about how he did things and stuff and then realized how much of a relationship there was there and stuff. But I think when you just draw like this, you know, you have a canvas or a space or something, and you just draw without thinking. Then you can’t, like, copy anything because the sort of copying stuff involves stopping and looking at something and it just comes out and it has to feel natural for it to work. So it kind of can’t be derived from anything, really.

Pearl Lam: But would you say that you are influenced by Keith Haring’s aesthetic, or did you already doodle after? And you start doodling and then you were introduced to Keith Haring, and then you look at it and then you’re inspired by that?

Mr Doodle: Yeah. So I was, like, doodling like this and then, and then saw, like, Keith Haring’s work.

Pearl Lam: So your live performance, do you see your live performance is very similar to.

Mr Doodle: Keith Haring’s yeah, I think so. But, yeah, I mean, it’s hard because there’s not. There’s not huge amounts of documentation of Keith Haring’s work, and, like, there’s not that much chance to see, like, how he did things like that. But I think the process of just, you know, it’s almost like a dance or something, and you’re just kind of flowing and you just don’t stop and the energy just comes out. I think that is the. Is the similarity. But even the tools we use are different because often he would use, like, paint brushes and things like that. And I just tend to use the marker and stuff.

Pearl Lam: No, and I think that. I don’t know whether key fairing does correct his. And his work, but you do really huge work that you never correct one stroke.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. I feel like the way once it’s created, that’s to kind of the way it’s meant to be. And I think that the whole, that I’m interested in, like, what a doodle is, and that’s why I called myself Mister doodle. And it’s like, a doodle is something that kind of comes out kind of subconsciously and naturally. And you’re not supposed to. I don’t think you’re not supposed to correct it, really. No.

Pearl Lam: Because it’s drawing subconsciously.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: And doing aimlessly and subconsciously.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. Yeah. And then, and the kind of beauty of it is meant to be this just, like, natural, like, raw image that comes out just instinctively.

Pearl Lam: And what is the biggest area or canvas or building you have ever done? Is it the one which is near your home?

Mr Doodle: That would be the biggest single wall.

Pearl Lam: Single wall. And how big it is. So. And so, the audience, sure.

Mr Doodle: I think it’s about 17.4 byte, 10 meters. So it’s about 17.4 meters tall and then 10 meters wide. That’s the single biggest wall. But in terms of, like, space covered in a single place, it’d probably be the house.

Pearl Lam: Oh, of course, the house. The house. Of course. You spent three years on the house, right?

Mr Doodle: Yeah. Well, we spent your corporate time, almost a year, like, preparing it and getting it all painted white, and then two years doodling it.

Pearl Lam: Are you proud about your house? Because everybody’s talking about the house.

Mr Doodle; Yeah, I’m very proud of it because it’s something that I thought of for, like, ten years before I even started it. And, and what I like about it is that I kind of wanted it to become this, like, artwork that I would kind of be known for. And now some people who’d never seen me before, come up to me and say, oh, you’re that. They don’t even know who I am, but they’re like, you’re that guy who drew on his house who don’t know my name or anything, but they kind of recognized the artwork of the house, and it kind of became this thing that got shared around the world that I think everyone could kind of find something in, because people all live in a certain space. And then, like, the idea that someone would cover everything that they live in with drawings is kind of interesting to almost anyone, I think.

Pearl Lam: Okay, you have to be very honest with me. You sleep in this room, which is our doodle. Do you get dizzy? I mean, your bathroom, your bathtub, everywhere. Your cattle, your fridge, your. Your television. I mean, everything is doodle.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: I mean, I love it. I don’t know whether I can live in it. Maybe I can spend, like, seven days, but living there day and night, I mean, what did misses Doodle say? And then, you know, Alfie, your little baby Elvie is growing up with this. I mean, all the doodles around.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: I mean, how do you feel about it?

Mr Doodle: Well, I love it. I mean, I never feel. I never really. I never. I’ve never felt dizzy in the house. I just become so, like, used to it, really, and just. It makes me feel kind of inspired, like, walking around and looking at the characters and things.

Pearl Lam: Yeah. You’re jealous.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. But when I first met, Elena misses Doodle. On the first day we met, I said, I don’t know how it came up, but I said, I really want to draw in a house one day and live in the house. So she knew from the very first day that that was always my dream, and she got fully on board with it and was very supportive and always wanted to see it happen and helped me find the right place and just pushed me every day to kind of keep going with it. And then with Alfie, he’s so used to living in the doodle space now that when we take him, like, away or somewhere, like, for a few nights or something, we have to take, like, doodle fabric with us to make him feel, sort of make him feel at home and stuff, because he misses the doodles.

Pearl Lam: So that means that if you bring him to a minimalist hotel room, he will have a shock of his life.

Mr Doodle: Even on the plane, like, where we’ve flown somewhere, we have to. We put up little doodle stickers on the seat and stuff so that he can, like, look at them because he loves to, like, look at the characters. And he kind of. He likes to scratch them or try and grab them and stuff. And he’s. He’s really interested in, like, the faces and things.

Pearl Lam: So amazing because that, I mean, I love the house. I love to visit, but living for their 365 days, I will have a little doubt about it. Amazing that you actually enjoy living there.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. Yeah.

Pearl Lam: The only white space is the ceiling.

Mr Doodle: Not even the ceiling.

Pearl Lam: Oh, yes. It says that. The ceiling. So doodle. Of course.

Mr Doodle: Of course.

Pearl Lam: I nearly forgotten about it. Of course you doodle the ceiling, especially the cloud room. Everything is there. All doodle. So you’re opening your new studio as well?

Mr Doodle: Yeah, yeah. So we’re building a studio in the garden, and that will be really nice for me because at the moment I’m working at the top of a, like a church in the town where I live.

Pearl Lam: Yeah.

Mr Doodle: And it’s nice and it’s worked really well for me, but I’m kind of growing out of it now doing, like, want to do bigger things, and I can’t. It’s not very easy to access and stuff. So the studio in the garden will be really good for me because I’ll be able to just walk from the house into the studio and spend as much time as I want there. And it’s a great space, and I’m really excited about that. Yeah.

Pearl Lam: So I think a lot of audience would want to visit your doodle home and see your new studio, so. Okay, so you are one of these young artists who make famous because of social media. I remember you told me that one day you were doodling on the floor, an american lady came in and took a video of you doodling the floor, and then it went viral.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam; So on that time, that was when?

Mr Doodle: 2015 2017.

Pearl Lam: 2017.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: And then you became huge. Everybody start knowing you and all that. What was that big change from. From not knowing? What were you doing at the time? Were you selling your. And your doodling to all the shops in exchange?

Mr Doodle: I was doodling in this shop in old street underground station in London. And I covered all the walls and paper and the floor, and I was drawing on the floor, and this lady came and filmed me. And the video ended up going onto Facebook and getting shared by all these pages. Suddenly all these notifications were coming into my phone and people were buying. I was selling posters and things on my website at the time for, I think it was like 20 pounds or something. And all these posters were suddenly getting sold. And I was thinking, where’s this all coming from? And I found out it was from this video. And then for the next week, it was such an amazing week, you know, I don’t know how long it lasted that, that, that sort of energy and stuff, but flannsy. Yeah, it just felt kind of crazy. And. And I remember my mum was helping me and we were, like, rolling up posters because there were so many to send out and we were. I was, like, signing and she’d roll it up and put it in a tube. And then me and my granddad, Papa Doodle, we went to the post office with these big sacks of, like, tubes. And people were getting really annoyed with us because we were, like, holding up the queue behind us and, like, sending all these things to, like, Japan or, like, sort of Mexico and all these, like, places around the world. And it was really kind of spread out. It was. People from all sorts of countries were, like, buying these posters and things and t shirts as well. And then from there, the following just kind of grew up. You know, a few, like hundred thousand or something. And then. Then other things happened. Like, other people then shared videos when I do other performances. And because there were so many more people aware of it, when things started to get shared, it generated more and more followers and. And then I did more, like, performances and stuff and it just kept going, kind of going like that, really. But it was, yeah, it was a really amazing time because up till then, I just, I didn’t know, you know, if that would. If that was even possible or even if that would ever happen. So I just washing, just doing it for the love of it, and then it ended up kind of getting really lucky with it.

Pearl Lam: So when was your first project, when you go abroad and where was it?

Mr Doodle: Well, the first one when I went abroad was, I think it was the trip to New York in 2016 where I drew in someone’s office. But the first one after that big kind of takeoff was to Hong Kong actually, in 2017, and that was when I was drawing over in a shopping center called Mirror Place.

Pearl Lam: Oh, that was your first time? The mirror place was your first time?

Mr Doodle: Yeah. So that was, yeah, six years ago. It was similar time to this time of year. And, yeah, I loved it. And it was really amazing, actually, because it still amazes me now. But on that first trip when I came here and people would, like, recognize me in the street and it was so far away from my home, I thought, wow, how do these people know who I am and stuff? It was really surreal.

Pearl Lam: What do you do at the mirror place so the audience knows?

Mr Doodle: Sure. It’s a big shopping center and we did this sort of Christmas themed doodle takeover. So it was doodles that had, like, pictures of. Of Christmas trees or Santa Claus and stuff, and they covered, like, you know, everything, like the floor and the walls and stuff with this sort of. With this tiled wallpaper wrap. And then I drew on, like, it was like a kind of London theme, I guess, with, like, I had, like, a big Ben sculpture and there was a London taxi that I drew over and I did a few performances and speeches and stuff and. Yeah, it was like, kind of. I guess it was sort of a promotion for the shopping center and stuff.

Pearl Lam: Wow. First time.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: But the following year, you also came back for the Sotheby’s things. Right. Two years later.

Mr Doodle: Two years after. Yeah.

Pearl Lam: So after. When did. I mean, so after the. Hong Kong is which. Which are the places?

Mr Doodle: So after Hong Kong, there was a few different trips, but the main thing I did next was preparing for a. My first, sort of solo international exhibition, which was Doodle World at the Ara Art center in Seoul. And I basically created, like, a reinterpretations of lots of, like, famous landmarks and sort of leaders of different countries, but in a doodle style, like, with all full of doodles. So it was like, almost like doodles had taken over the world. And that was sort of my collection of work for that space. And that was. That was the next trip. And then following on from that, it was several, like, trips to Tokyo and Taiwan and.

Pearl Lam: And how about the Mexico when you were working with the british. The british embassy?

Mr Doodle: Oh, yeah, yeah. So I got invited by them to create a few installations and murals and things in, I think it was March 2019, and it was actually straight after going to a trip to Tokyo. So it was like, I went out to Tokyo and I went straight to, like, Mexico, and my body clock was kind of, like, all over the place. But it was really fun and it was really cool in Mexico, actually.

Pearl Lam: But actually, Sam, we are talking about 217 and then from 217. And your career just exploded because you were invited for collaboration. Bye. Fendi, Puma, Samson and all that. For young artists, it must be a huge surprise that all of a sudden from one end, you jump into, become so successful.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just really happy and grateful that people were enjoying the work and, you know, the doodles and stuff. And it was just, yeah, really fun because, like, all these people, like, comment on my pictures online and sort of share it with their friends and stuff. And it really. It was really, like, great for me and I think it was nice, like, for my family. And friends as well, because they could see, like, it had gone somewhere, you know? Because I think for a while, maybe some of them were thinking, like, you know, Sam gets dressed up in his doodle suit and goes and draws, but, like, where’s it. Where’s it going? You know, like, why does he do it? And how long is it going to last? And then I think that all after 2017 kind of, like, validated it for if some people had maybe some, like, doubts or something. And it’s really nice because, like, you know, people, like, I remember Poppa was. Was, like, watching, you know, my, he’d always, he’d always check my social media and stuff, and he loved it when he saw, like, the followers go up and stuff. And he’d always text me and say.

Pearl Lam: Like, poppa was 80 something years old.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: Oh, my God.

Mr Doodle: He’d always text me and say, like, oh, you, you know, you’re on, like, 1.1 million now, 1.2 million. Always send me a text and say, yeah, thanks, papa. It’s cool, isn’t it? And you’d always try and let you say, like, how did that happen? Why did it go up? And I wouldn’t always know the answer, but, yeah.

Pearl Lam: So how would you advise young, and, you know, young people want to become an artist? Social media really such an important thing, an important platform for you, for anyone who becomes an artist, disregard the conventional way of working in galleries, having a museum recognition and all that.

Mr Doodle: I guess maybe it depends on what kind of artist you are. I know for me, it works really well because of how I want my work to be and how I want to attract kind of everyone to it. But for, maybe for some people, it might be more. There’s maybe different methods that are better, but I think it’s not a tool that should just be kind of dismissed. I think it can be really powerful and a really good way to just engage with people instantly from anywhere. We’ve never had that before in humans lifetime and stuff. Like, to be able to just take a picture or take a video of something and share it with just, like, an endless amount of people is a really amazing thing. It’s an amazing time to be alive, I think, from that aspect.

Pearl Lam: But as a gallery, it’s really tough because, you know, I’m trying to make a popular artist to be academically. I mean, to be academic and to be accepted in an academic and the curatorial way. So my job is make, you know, is to revert back not just the public, but we want the establishment endorsement as well. So I thought that everybody’s commenting that your performances, your live performances in mplus patron room, they love it. So I think now mplus wanted to collect your work. So I think all that is now is reversing because a lot of artists, first they need to have the curators, guardians, creators saying they are great and then the gallery will push them, then they have the establishment and then they become commercially successful. Commercially successful and you have a lot of popularity. But now we have to bring a popular artist into being endorsed by the establishment. So we’re doing reverse. It’s not so easy. But we are very happy that next year you are going to be in the proper museum. Holborn Museum in UK.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: So it will be your first solo show. So working, working with, I mean, from my experience, working with a popular artist is completely a new experience.

Mr Doodle: Right, okay.

Pearl Lam: A new experience as well. You know, you’re doing collaboration. I mean, traditionally, conventionally, an artist collaborating, being a commercial success, being collaboration is strong that. But today with the social media, it’s changed everything. Yeah, I think the technology with your generation of artists must be very important.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, well, I think it’s kind of interesting because I think some, I think some, I think it’s like people have a tendency to dismiss certain things if they’re popular. Like, I think sometimes, like if someone says a big following or even, you know, not just artists or musicians or something, but even like a popular, like brands or food or something, people sometimes think, you know, like everyone likes that. So I don’t want to like that or don’t want to sort of give credit or approve to that. So it’s kind of maybe difficult to change perceptions. But I think when, you know, as you were saying, when you do a live performance front of people, I think it’s hard for people not to somehow engage and get something from that and they can’t dismiss it so easily, I think if they see it in person and stuff. So, yeah, I guess it’s difficult to change perceptions, but I think it’s kind of a nice problem to have in a way. I think.

Pearl Lam: How did you come out with a doodle suit? And you understand branding very much because your job, I mean, you create from Doodle man to Mister Doodle and then you create the work and the work and you is the same. So you actually created a personality and how do you, I mean, how do you create the whole personality, like doctor scribble and of course in your life you have a dog, so. So now you have a doodle dog.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: So share with us about, about all your imaginary characters.

Mr Doodle: Yeah, it was a real gradual process. It didn’t just happen kind of, like, straight away. I mean, like, wearing the doodle clothes was because I was drawing on lots of different objects and I just wanted to create a photograph where I blended in with the mural behind me. So I drew over my suit and I went in, into university and sort of blended in with the, with the mural. And then my tutor kind of nicknamed me the Doodle man. And then I thought, oh, that’s, you know, interesting. And then I realized, like, how much more kind of interesting that is, maybe to me, than just being like Sam Cox, who makes pictures. But, like, if you’re Mister Doodle, then you’re, like, you’re within this world and people can, like, come into the narrative and there’s, like, there’s just more more to it and there’s more, like, things to be interested in and more, like, to talk about and stuff. So it was a really very gradual process. And then the creators like Doctor Scribble, the evil twin of Mister Google, and I think it’s fun because then it’s like the story between the two and they’re, like, battling each other, and you can take that into so many different performances or, like, installations and stuff. I just try and, like, have fun. And I’m trying to kind of create things that, that would interest people who aren’t really interested in art because, like, I think if you see, like, a kind of funny video of, like, Mister Doodle doodling a room and then Doctor scribble come in and erasing it, then that’s kind of funny to, like, people who don’t even, you know, might not like paintings and stuff, but they kind of just like this performative element of it, I guess. And that’s what I’m trying to do, is to try and create things that kind of out of the realms of.

Pearl Lam: Traditional spaces, I guess you’re not even 30 years old. You’re still under 30 years old. How do you see how your next 1020 years going to be? What is your dream? What is your next big dream that you want to do?

Mr Doodle: I really want to. After doodling the house, I’ve dreamt now about doodling a whole town. And I really want to, you know, doodle the road, the cars, the buildings, and create a very large landscape.

Pearl Lam: Your doodle world. Yeah.

Mr Doodle: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: You are creating Doodle land.

Mr Doodle: Yeah. And then I think it’s the best kind of expression that I’ll probably create of, you know, of sort of showing how I want to doodle the earth. It’s like, it’s like a manageable way to do that. But I think it’s going to take, you know, many years, probably 15 or 20 years, because I want it to be very detailed, all hand drawn and, yeah, really kind of like an amazing place. And I want to create a stop motion film of that as well and make it like a sequel to the Doodle House and then a battle between Mister Doodle and Doctor Scribble. And I think that’ll be and one of my favorite things I’ll ever do. So that’s kind of my sort of one of the self initiated things that I’ll try and do on the side of everything else. But in terms of other stuff, I just want to keep, just keep that real, like, fun element of my work and just see where it goes, really. I don’t know exactly what will happen, but I just want to keep doing what I’m doing. I’ve still got so much energy for it, and I just love doing it every day and thinking of new ideas, and I don’t think I’ll ever want to stop it, really.

Pearl Lam: So in your mind, you are going to continue until the end of your life?

Mr Doodle: I think so, yeah.

Pearl Lam: Doodling. So do you think that you’re going to train little baby Elsie to do doodling together with you?

Mr Doodle: Well, only if he wants to, you know, I want to put things in front of him, you know, like give him some pens, give him paint and give him, like, musical instruments, like a camera, if he wants to do some funny, like acting or something. I don’t know, like, and just all these different tools and let him, like, work it out. But I think it’s important that we sort of give him as many options as possible.

Pearl Lam: Oh, I forgot to ask you a question. I mean, beside using marker pan, have you, have you tried to, I mean, have you tried to use other things? You use brushes, right, when you’re doing, doing canvas with your aquatic. And so what other things do you use for Duloy?

Mr Doodle: Well, yeah, my favorite is pens because it’s such an instant, nice, clean, neat process. I also like using spray paint for outside. It’s a bit more durable perhaps than pens. And I like using, you know, things like chalk as well or. Yeah, sometimes brushes. But I don’t really get along with brushes as well, really. I just don’t find that you can get such a clean line and sometimes important to me in certain instances, but I also like using even things like a little, like, drill type tool to carve into things. Or, like, I like to draw digitally or animate things, screen printing and stuff like that. I try to take the drawings to lots of different mediums, but it usually gravitates back to pens at the end.

Pearl Lam: Sam, we have a great time and a great conversation, and I hope I’ll see you in London very soon.

Mr Doodle: Definitely. Thank you, Pearl.

Pearl Lam: Thank you.