Pearl Lam: Welcome to Pearl Lam Podcast. Today I am in Paris and I’m in this really beautiful old building, and this building is L’ÉCOLE School of Jewelry Arts. And they have just newly moved here. And I would like to introduce Élise Gonnet-Pon to, I mean, to give us a background of the school.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Thank you Pearl, and welcome. Welcome to this new venue of L’ÉCOLE School of Jewelry Arts where we are at the moment together. It’s a preview for you because we are going to open in the spring, this new destination of jewelry culture in Paris. We’ve been established in Paris in 2012 to share about jewelry culture at large, from antiquity to contemporary artists looking at jewelry as a universal language in all civilizations and culture. To do so, we have a very wide array of programmes, starting with courses in the universe of gemstones, history of jewelry and craftsmanship. We have talks, conversations which are held in person or online. We have as well exhibitions dedicated to jewelry. And we very recently launched a podcast called the Voice of Jewels.

Pearl Lam: So what is this podcast about?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: This podcast is about jewelry. The first chapter is around love jewelry.

Pearl Lam: When you say love jewelry, what do you mean?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Sentimental jewelry, I would say. And we have different episodes in French and English, and it’s already very well received. And here is in this new building of Merci Argenteaux. It’s a historical Parisian mansion from the 18th century, which has never been open to public. So we are getting ready for that. And not only will we offer here exhibitions in a larger space compared to our current campus, but also courses, conversations and two venues dedicated to books. As books in today’s digital world, we consider book is still a very relevant way of sharing jewelry knowledge. First of all, we have many publications at L’ÉCOLE, thanks to our research department. And around all our exhibitions will have a bookshop called L’Escarboucle, that’s a French word meaning red gemstones dedicated to jewelry. The first bookshop fully dedicated to jewelry in Paris. So, precious metals, gemstones, minerals, jewelry, history and decorative arts. And one library, the first and largest library in Europe, dedicated to jewelry with 10,000 books, will have three salons in this building, open to public by appointment, with eight seats for researchers to come and work. Researchers, designers, anyone who wants to come and study, guided by our librarians here, will be very welcome. So we are very much looking forward to opening the second venue in Paris, while the original venue will be revamped and we’ll have a surprise, maybe for another episode to talk about.

Pearl Lam: So beautiful. What is interesting is, let me share with the audience is L’ÉCOLE is a school, not just a simple school, but they managed to get craft craftsmen who supposed to, you call it transmission, right? They passed from generation to generation and they managed to get these craftsmen to share the knowledge, to share the craftsmanship with everyone, with all the students who’s interested to make jewelries. And I think the world has changed, because I think craftsman families, children, they do not necessarily want to be a craftsman. And how do you manage to persuade all these craftsmen to share those knowledge?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Jewelry has long been a very secretive world. May be intimidating for some. You know, traditionally one would become a jeweller or a stone setter, because our polisher, because his father, his mother was working in a workshop, and this was like the natural continuation of the, of the family tradition, somehow. While today the profession is welcoming young talents from all backgrounds. And we believe opening the doors of jewelry to everyone is really critical to make sure that the beauty of jewelry, its significance in all cultures, civilizations, is really the key to continuing the transmission in the next generations.

Pearl Lam: Now everybody is teaching online, you know, you do courses online, you do zoom, you do all these things. Why do you need such a big physical space?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Well, we believe that hands on and in person learning, you know, from human being. From human being, you know, there is so much you can of course, observe on the beautiful video, you know, of a craftsman hand maybe setting a gemstone or polishing metal. But the understanding that you get and the experience, the emotion from trying for yourself and looking at gemstones for yourself cannot be replaced by the online experience. This is why we are, you know, still very committed to in person learning, you know, in person transmission. And when you visit an exhibition to look for yourself at the piece, of course, in the recent years that the world went through, digital really helped to still stay connected and to still learn and have some different kind of education. And even at L’ÉCOLE this is when we started our online talks and conversations that we still offer you know, every month. But this wouldn’t be our only way of transmitting the jewelry culture.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, of course, we. It’s all about proximities and house and see how it sets. It’s very difficult to translate.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: And this is very sensual. You know, jewelry is something one would wear a. On your skin or on your clothes, so you can’t completely disconnect from that. Very sensual.

Pearl Lam: You need to be more personal then.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: That’s very personal. Yes. Jewelry is probably the most personal form of art.

Pearl Lam: Is L’ÉCOLE a school that attracts people or students to become a designer or just to get the knowledge, or they want to become a craftsman? What is the objective of them doing it? Of course, we all know that, you know, it’s very sad that craft is losing its way and sometimes the craft is completely lost because there’s no one to pass it, transmitting it, pass it on. But what is the main objective of having the school? Because, you know, you want to cultivate interest in craft or you want to have a new stable of craftsmen, a new stable of jewelry designer?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Well, actually our main purpose is really to have an audience as wide as possible, from all ages and backgrounds, to appreciate jewelry as a form of art, first of all. So we are here to, you know, help everyone to discourage or rediscover what jewelry is from, you know, antique civilizations to contemporary artists. And we do that through different ways of introduction. Then for our students who aim, you know, to become a jeweller, a jewelry designer, after understanding better, thanks to our programme, what it is all about, then we can indicate them which professional school they can go to for a diploma.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, because you did say that this is a foundation course. This is a basic foundation course.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Exactly.

Pearl Lam: But when you say the jewelry as art, I completely disagree with this.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Is that so?

Pearl Lam: No, because, you know, art is many forms. Definitely.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: It’s not fine art, it’s decorative art.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, decorative art, definitely agree. Because decorative art is using handcraft and all that. So when you say that it is a foundation course, so people comes in, they learn about. Because a lot of people, they want to, they love jewelry, so they want to learn more about jewelry. Not necessarily, they want to be a profession.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: That’s right. And they want to understand better their own collection or to, yes, find ways of looking at the gemstones, of looking at a piece, of looking at the craftsmanship. And very often, you know, after attending one of our courses, then they would look at their own pieces or they would look at an exhibition, at a creation in a different way, from the front, from the back, understanding what setting means, what polishing, or all the techniques involved.

Pearl Lam: But I think strategically, you all have done a fantastic thing because Hong Kong is the biggest jewelry market in the world. So having that and every lady’s love jewelries, so that.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: And not only ladies.

Pearl Lam:I know, I know, I know. I have men friends who’s been collecting stones, jewelries and everything. Absolutely right. Right. Unfortunately, they can’t wear it. They will give to the wife to wear it and take it back. You’re absolutely right. So it’s really interesting that. Who are the students who’s actually coming?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Especially in Asia, we have art lovers, we have art addicts, you know, cultural savvy people. We have families as well coming. We have collectors, we have young graduates who wish to choose their next set for their career. So it’s very diverse. And also we see that depending on the exhibition topic that we showcase, the audience can change. In Hong Kong last year, we had a beautiful exhibition. We showcased a collection of men’s rings. So there were all belonging, a few hundreds, actually, of them, many of them in silver. So, you know, bikers rings or memento mori. So it shows that jewelry at large is very eclectic and that the most important is probably not whether the material is precious or not, whether it features gemstones or not. It’s. It’s an ornament, a talisman, it’s a meaning, because one would always remember, be it in a very ancient culture or in contemporary times, you know, in any continent, any civilization, there is jewelry, there is ornament. This is the very first form of art. You know, as per the archaeological findings, the first thing we found were jewelry ornaments.

Pearl Lam: One of the very interesting thing that I would really love to talk to you about today is about craft.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Yes.

Pearl Lam: Yeah. Because I am very interested in craft. And what I know, what I understand is there’s only two countries in the world, they celebrate craftsmanship. They put craftsman as master. One is France, one is Japan. So all other countries around the world, we don’t give the necessary respect to craftsmen. So how would you encourage the world? Because without craftsmen, craftsmen, when they pass their craft generation to generations, what they are passing through is not just a craft, but a legacy. And it is a legacy and heritage of that culture. And I find out. I find that in China as such, is we are losing that fair, really great culture, because many of the young people, they don’t want to be a craft because they’re not respected. Right? But whereas here and in Japan, like Maasa they are celebrated and not just respected. How would you, how would you encourage, you know, all these different old culture about preserving craft?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Well, to answer your question, I would say by education, and this is where Lecol can help and support, you know, I’m a very big fan of an initiative called Homo Faber by the Michelin del Gelo foundation, which preserves craftsmanship. And its director, actually, Roberto Cavalli once said, and this is a sentence I always remember and repeat, that the enemy to beauty is not ugliness, it’s ignorance. And I think it’s absolutely right.

Pearl Lam: Yeah. So true.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: And this is where I believe L’ÉCOLE, you know, humbly can contribute wherever it is established or travelling in the world to showcase the beauty of the craftsmanship. And, you know, in Hong Kong, we had a beautiful exhibition which then travelled here in Paris called Golden Treasure. And this showcased an amazing private collection of Chinese gold ornaments. For some of them, they dated back to 3000 years ago, and it shows how refined the craftsmanship of gold was in ancient China. And this was extremely inspiring for contemporary visitors. You know, we had visitors here in Paris from China who were so moved by seeing this. So by showcasing such pieces to the general public, this is how, by developing the knowledge that we can probably encourage the next generations to go for learning crafts and perpetuating these crafts, while, of course, being very aware of the contemporary environment.

Pearl Lam: I always see art as a cultural bridge. But then you told me that jewelry is a cultural bridge. I can’t agree with you. So, can you explain to me your point of view?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: We probably agree in a way that jewelry is a form of art, of decorative art?

Pearl Lam: I mean, of course it is a form of decorative art because there’s so much. I mean, it’s about. Creativity is about, you know, using your hand, creating this. You know, it’s very different when you have a hand finished product than your machine finished product. The patina, the hand cropping, even little imperfection is beautiful.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: It is, yes.

Pearl Lam: Yeah, absolutely so and so. But you say that jewelry is a cultural bridge. I can’t see how. How jewelry is a cultural bridge as such?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: There is a jewelry culture in.

Pearl Lam: Everywhere.

Élise Gonnet-Pon:Everywhere, everywhere. That’s what I mean. And a jewelry piece is a message. It conveys. When you look at a jewelry piece, you can feel an emotion, it conveys something. Jewelry are very symbolic when they are offered to a loved one, when they are part of. Of a legacy, they can be very symbolic. Also historically, when you look at. We were having last week a lecture with some of the researchers from the College de France, it’s an institution supporting a lot of cultural initiatives and we studied jewelry represented in historical paintings and you could observe how some jewels were passed on, you know, from one european court to the other and they were represented in official portraits. So be it, you know, a sentimental jeweller that someone would offer or to a loved person or to an heir or be it something acquired, you know, that’s a regalia, and it can be very symbolic in that way, then it can be very symbolic in some cultures because of the material, because of the technique.

Pearl Lam: I agree to a certain extent is because I agree in the aesthetic value, because when I see Indian jewelry, which I like, old Indian jewelry, the aesthetic is very different than, of course, the Chinese one. The Chinese is completely because I collect a lot of feather, not Kingfisher feather jewelries, which is this blue. And then when you look at reason and winter Africa, I love all those African beads, so all those aesthetic, aesthetically it is different. So doesn’t mean that I’m Chinese. I’ve been educated abroad. I would not appreciate that. I love the differences of culture because of the beauty of the difference aesthetic as such. So with that, I understand that, yes, maybe there’s a cultural bridge because it’s the appreciation of a different culture, but many people is nothing as open minded because I love different cultures. So it’s very hard that if you only decided that my, you know, my, because you’re conditioned to see certain design jewelries, they could not accept the other ones, so it cannot form that bridge as such.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Well, this is why we try to open the perspective and to, yes, open the jewelry world to everyone through our programmes. We have one course called around the world in jewelry, where we present jewelry and ornaments in all continents, to really encourage, to have that kind of perspective and to probably rethink the way we look at the notion of preciousness.

Pearl Lam: Do you believe that when you are, you know, when you’re living in a country, when you stay in a city, so your eyes are conditioned to certain aesthetic, right. So if there’s anything which is different from what you see, your immediate reaction will say that, oh, it’s ugly. Oh, it’s not, you know, is it immediate because you’re not used to that aesthetic? So culturally, then you reject this culture because you. Because you’re so used to a and then when B comes along and you say it’s not, it’s not great.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: To me, it’s really to encourage open mindedness and this is what we try to do at L’ÉCOLE is to present the wide eclecticism and diversity of what jewelry is. And then this is very personal, probably like a form of art that one would appreciate or not. Education and knowledge are the solution.

Pearl Lam: Don’t you think that, you know, we live in a world where there are really strong western influences. You open a magazine, it’s all the advertisement of all this jewelry brand. So our eyes is actually we being conditioned. So anything that we judge, we are using that aesthetic for value, to judge on what is, what is beautiful and what is nothing. It’s very hard now, after you’ve been conditioned from the beginning, you know, from, from when you’re born, you look at magazine. It’s not just in France or in Europe or in America, but in the whole of Asia. We used to that. Of course, in some of the countries, like in India, they have your Indian jewelry, you have in Thailand, you have their own craft. So they give that, give a different aesthetic. But mostly we are following the western appreciation of aesthetic. So we are conditioned.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Well, humbly. What we are trying to do at L’ÉCOLE  is really to showcase all types of jewelry and differences, to show that they are beautiful and that there is really, it’s really worth discovering all the world heritage of jewelry. This is probably why, you know, when it was showcased in Paris, the Golden Treasures exhibition, showcasing Chinese treasures was the most popular among the Parisian audience. This is by really opening the world of jewelry in all its dimensions, that we can probably encourage a more universal look.

Pearl Lam: That’s great, because my favourite line has been always been applying western domination of culture.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: You know, the more we launch research projects, the more we meet collectors, I think the more humbling it is. Of course, France, for instance, with the place Vendome, is one of the world’s jewelry concentration. But there are many that we discussed. If you look, for instance, in Singapore, they have at the Asian civilizations, museum, fantastic jewelry gallery where you discover jewellery crafts, you know, from Java, from Borneo, from many islands and countries. And this is endless. That’s fantastic. And what we are looking forward to doing is to showcasing more all these beautiful diversity, diversity of jewelry, because that’s actually all this and then this topic of study.

Pearl Lam: Yeah. And actually all this is encouraging people to be more open minded.

Élise Gonnet-Pon Absolutely.

Pearl Lam: And then what are the crafts that has been lost, especially in France, that we cannot recover?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: One craft I know of in jewelry is the gold lace. It was a very specific technique which was popular until the 1950s, to my knowledge. And then the fashion and the style, the taste changed, so there was no longer any demand for that. And the jewellers went to, I mean, they distinguished. Yes, or they simply created other types of jewelry and techniques, because that particular feature and style was no longer. And yes, probably at the time, you know, even in France, where, as you said, there is this appreciation for craftsmanship and to protect the craftsmanship sometimes, or probably in these decades, it was not yet so, so much a focus then.

Pearl Lam: Could you find this craft, let’s say, in Italy or in China or in Bangkok? Bangkok is very good in doing good, and India as well. Can’t you find all that same craftsmanship?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Not to my knowledge. Maybe it exists. But you know what’s fantastic? And we see that at L’ÉCOLE, we have since 2017, the department of Research, and they work with universities and researchers on all kind of jewelry related topics. So this is exactly what we can work with, work on. And at the moment, actually, and this is probably what I should have shared first, is that we have a great research project on the celtic talk. We today don’t know anymore what is the technique which was used to create this talk. So, with a group of researchers and scientists, we are trying to recreate one and through this process to actually find out what the craftsmanship was. So once we know, we’ll keep you posted and we’ll have a whole communication and capsule exhibition around that research and really to try to bring back the craftsmanship, to understand it and see how we can revive it. So this is, in a way, part of our research approach.

Pearl Lam: So you have a school in Shanghai and you have a school in Hong Kong and you have a school going to have a school in Dubai. So all these other countries, including France, you have different craftsmen, right? So do they do the same thing or do they do different? And so do you take exchanges to come to different part of your. I mean, different school and then they create a different course?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Well, we have one curriculum which is the same for all our campuses and also the travelling schools that we can have in Japan or in the Americas. Having said that, especially through the exhibitions or various programmes, we can have a local resonance. And thanks to collectors, institutions, researchers from all over the world, we can have a cross cultural dialogue related to jewelry.

Pearl Lam: Another big question I need to discuss with you is in Asia especially, they love gemstones. The stones deflower stone, pink, diamond, intense yellow, whatever. It’s all about stones now. I always thought that stones is completely. We give values to a stone. If today we don’t consider a diamond is anything but just something for an aeroplane machine. So it doesn’t mean anything. So I always thought that what makes jewelries wonderful is the design and the craftsmanship. Now I would really like to hear your point of view. Of course, you know, stones, as we just discussed, you have cuts right now and now, multifaceted cut, of course, now is done in India and then you have the Belgium card and then Russia is banned now. But isn’t that most important is about a design with a design. And then you have the craftman which makes it really amazing. Sometimes even crystals to use, but it’s the design that makes it.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: The design and the craftsmanship change everything.

Pearl Lam: Yeah.

Élise Gonnet-Pon:When we talk about jewelry, we talk about gemstones. Indeed, I agree. Gemstones, you know, there are the diamonds of called the colourless diamonds and then there are all the other wide array of gemstones. And what we try to convey through the schools and our programmes is maybe to change perspective when we look at gemstones, not only indeed, as you mentioned, to look at the number of carats or commercial value, but to really first of all have our students hold a stone, look at the gemstone, look at an inclusion, maybe appreciate the beauty of an inclusion, understand where it comes from, because in gemstones there is maybe a dimension of eternity. You know, they were formed millions of years ago and they will probably be passed on to a generation. So in that regard, maybe it’s a story of transmission too. And when you study the history of jewelry in different civilizations and periods of time, you can understand different areas of the world that the same gemstone would not have the same meaning, that the colour of the gemstones can convey a different message, you know, that, for instance, pearls would be in a renaissance for young ladies or even for some kings who were wearing in the late Middle Ages pearls. And yes, we really tried to open the mind and to look at gemstones only as one dimension of jewelry, to ornate a design. And maybe the exhibition that we currently have in Dubai around emeralds shows the rough gemstone, the cut gemstones and examples of beautiful pieces featuring emeralds which have been either cut and grey faceted and then set on a design beautifully mounted. So it really shows how the art of jewelry, the design, the craftsmanship, transforms, you know, nature’s treasure into a piece of art you can wear.

Pearl Lam: Because for me is the design, is the creativity, it is, yeah. And the craftman is the details of the hands and how you create and how do you make reality made into reality, an exquisite design. So stone is only a supplementary thing, but obviously in the jewelry world stone is number one. Everything is a design, you know, or design craft is not as valuable as a stone. But then you look at some and you know, some of the brands I want to draw again, jars, because Jar is the only brand that have a museum show in the mat. And when you see that, then everything that I thought is right, should be right. It’s not about the stokes, it’s about the design, it’s about the craftsmanship. The craftsmanship for me is really important.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Probably there is today a lack of understanding on how, how much time is involved in a craftsmanship of the jewelry piece making. And there are many contemporary artists, designers or historical houses who propose. And this is what you can experience at liquor when you are for two or 4 hours behind the workbench. And when you realise how long it takes just to do one very single step, then you understand that a piece can take a few hundreds or a few thousand hours of handcraft, right, to be completed. So this is why indeed is not only about gemstones at all, but it’s about human hands combined.

Pearl Lam: Because this craft, and because I’m also very interested in today’s young people, the 3d printing jewelries, because I thought this is my, you know, I thought every design is about, is evolving within our contemporary lifestyle, our contemporary culture. And of course, jewelry in the past is only for the aristocrat or the very wealthy families. But today we have jewelries, which is now jewelries can be, can be worn by all the young people, so they can afford to buy it. And technology create, you know, technology is very important. So now we have technology versus craft. My dream, my dream is, what is your dream? To have a 3D print, but then using craft to carve out the 3D printer and set it. So it’s a combination with the both and it will be. I mean, I mean that’s, that’s representing what we are talking about. We cannot deny technology, but we have to embrace craft. So I thought that is something that maybe you can encourage yourself, because I think that’s, that’s, that’s really, you know, because I think the creativity should not just limit it to one material.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: No, not at all.

Pearl Lam: Use everything to create something new.

Élise Gonnet-Pon Jewelry is not only something which has to be made with precious material. And at L’ÉCOLE, this is something we are trying to convey as well, that any talisman, any ornament, and we have a course about talismans and amulets show that the notion itself of preciousness is very much related to a moment of time or a fashion or one vision or one angle. But a pendant made of a simple shell can be very precious to you because it means it was given to you by someone you love or because it’s a memory. And yes, there is this relativity in a way.

Pearl Lam: I always remember. One thing really struck my mind was a 1930s Cartier in wood, just wood beset with diamonds in it. I thought it was really special because there’s nothing fancy, but just wood.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Yes. If you look at jewelry around the world, beautiful. This is also something we look at, something is different.

Pearl Lam: It’s not love, but something. I love everything a little bit quirky. And what I think, you know, in this world now, what you are doing is amazing. Preserving craft, spreading, telling, I mean, encouraging the world actually to preserve craft. If you don’t preserve craft, we could not preserve our legacy and our heritage.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: There is jewelry craftsmanship everywhere in the.

Pearl Lam: World and it’s all very different.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: And it’s all very different throughout art history, jewelry history courses, this is what we try to convey to encourage, really, the general public to look at jewelry as a form of art, of decorative art, and to appreciate all dimensions of jewelry, be it the material, the metal, the gemstones, the symbolism behind the multicultural. Yes, yes.

Pearl Lam: Elise, when is the opening of these new facilities?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: We are opening in spring and we are very excited as the inaugural exhibition is dedicated to stage jewelry.

Pearl Lam: So it’s costume jewelry?

Élise Gonnet-Pon:  Yes, it’s, you know, we were touching on earlier on what is precious, what is not precious. And stage jewelry from comedie Francaise, the French National Theatre collection, is exhibited here. And it’s very interestingly non precious materials. So mostly imitation gemstones, coloured glass or non precious metals, but crafted in the same way as Hydra would be crafted, because it was meant to be seen from afar by the audience and worn by the actors and actresses on stage.

Pearl Lam: Oh, wonderful.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: So, yes, we are showcasing jewelry which doesn’t have to be precious, the way we look at preciousness today, maybe, but precious because of their history, because of who were the actors and actresses who wore it, and because of the workmanship.

Pearl Lam: Behind a must visit exhibition. After watching this episode, I’m sure that. And there will be many interested parties who want to know more and more about the school and who wants, maybe they want to be going online or visiting here. How do they find. I mean, can you give any contact or information for people to know more about the school?

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Yes, of course. We have our website https://www.lecolevancleefarpels.com/fr/en and all our campuses around the world where, you know, people can come in person and have information to register to all our programmes.

Pearl Lam: Thank you, Elise. So great to be here. Thank you for allowing us to film this, to have this podcast film here.

Élise Gonnet-Pon: Very glad to welcome you and your team, Pearl. Thank you.