Pearl Lam: Welcome, Zahra. Zahra, can you talk a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Zahra Khan: Yeah. Thank you for having me. I’m Chef Zahra Khan and I’m the founder of Feya. We’ve got three locations in central London, and I’m here to talk all about the brand and, you know, how it came about.

Pearl Lam: You’re an artist, so when you walk into your restaurant, it’s pink. When you see your website is pink, and I saw this beautiful packaging. So how do you merge from art into food? And how do you do your whole packaging, your whole branding, from your restaurant to all your packaging?

Zahra Khan: So I think one of the biggest factors behind the brand Feya was my love and passion for art. And that was the inspiration for the dishes, for the interiors. And if you look at our menu, and if you look at the dishes, they’re very artistic, they’re very colourful, they’re very vibrant, and it’s all natural. There’s no artificial colours or preservatives in our food. So the focus is on, you know, healthy, good food, but just plate it beautifully. Because for me, food is not just a necessity, it should be celebrated. And I wanted to give people this opportunity, you know, that when they’re coming to dine in, our customers should just have this experience of the interiors of the food. And it’s not just a place you go to eat. The whole thing should be an immersive experience, and that’s what we tried to create. So each of our locations, if you look at the interior, they’re done differently. So the James Street one is very pink and pastel and it’s got a white blossom tree, and then you just dine under the blossom tree. And we serve our very Instagrammable dishes, which are, you know, like rose avocado toast, or, you know, the pancakes, which we’re very well known for. And the motivating factors have been, you know, that, creating that ambience as well. And then our Knightsbridge location is an enchanted forest, and it’s got a river flowing through, and so as you’re walking through, it tells a story that you’re walking through a forest, and towards the end you’ve got the sun, and then when you go into the toilets, there’s the clouds there, so it’s almost like you’re going up into a forest. And then we’ve got this beautiful bird cage seating, so there are, like, bird cages that you sit and dine in. So it’s been a bit of interiors plus food. And then we also launched our retail line, which is our products, which is something that came about in Covid. And this is when the whole world was shaken up and we had no idea what to expect. Our restaurant businesses were closed, our staff, we didn’t want to let anybody go and we luckily were able to retain all our staff without having to let anyone go. And the shops were closed and we just didn’t know what’s going to happen next. And we were a very new brand. We had just launched our second location three months before the lockdown. So that was just, you know, as a new business, it really shook us. And then we thought, you know, there’s something we always wanted to do was this retail line, the products that we’re going to allow people to take a bit of fair home with them and we get a lot of tourists visiting because of the locations we’re in and there’s something for them to take back, like a souvenir and also to convey a message through our products. So that’s how the fair Cares initiative came about. And that’s how the fair retail line came about. So we’re doing products like chocolates, teas, jams, hot chocolates. And the retail line was designed by female illustrators that we hired. And the idea behind that was to have an empowering message with each product.

Pearl Lam: The messages are amazing. Can you tell the audience here, what are some of your messages? I was really push up.

Zahra Khan: So for the chocolates, for example, the packaging and beautiful packaging. Thank you. It has a message, reach for the stars. And then there’s a message behind each product, which is to reach your potential. You should always aspire to reach higher and sky’s the limit. And then for teas, the message is self care, because everybody’s so busy in their lives and their routines, it’s just to take a moment to enjoy that cup of tea and just to reflect and just to unwind a bit. So that’s the message for the teas. And then we’ve got another message on the jams, which is be yourself. So to be unique, to be yourself. We’ve also got a message around diversity on the hot chocolates, that we are stronger together and there is power in numbers. And so, you know, we tried to motivate and inspire and just offer this through our products and that was sort of the background behind.

Pearl Lam: I love your messages.

Zahra Khan: Oh, thank you. And the sales from our retail line, so 5% of the sales go towards funding our charity, Feya Cares. So that is something how we can drive our social initiative. That’s how we give back to society. That’s how we work and partner with other charities as well.

Pearl Lam: What I’m really interested in, and I thought is fascinating is when I was reading what you did, and you create the social initiative, and I believe that the social initiative is prompted by your experience being in London, being in this, in your school, being the only Pakistani. And also you were born in Pakistan and you were trying to hope and inspire all the, and all the young women. So can you, can you elaborate on that?

Zahra Khan: So, interestingly enough, in my school, I was so being a chef, and I think if you look at the culinary world, it’s a very male dominated industry for Pakistani women, or I think women of Asian descent, it’s very uncommon to explore this field as a career. So I was the only Pakistani student at my time in the school, but in the history of the school, and this is UK’s oldest cookery school, I was the only female Pakistani that has ever been studied at that school. So I just feel like this was something that was, it’s so uncommon, but it’s something that, you know, has brought me a long way on my journey there. I’ve learned so much along the way and I feel like it’s a great career path for young women as well, because a lot of women, especially in Pakistan, aspire to be chefs, but, you know, in Pakistan. In Pakistan as well. Right. But it gets, you know, there’s this thinking around it that women are traditional cooks. They’re meant to cook at home for the families, and, you know, they’re not meant to do this as a career, which is, you know, but.

Pearl Lam: But this is very true in the whole of Asia, the perception. I mean, there’s a lot of great women, a shaving great woman coat, but they are all limited in their home kitchen.

Zahra Khan: Exactly.

Pearl Lam: Absolutely right. And then when you go to see professional, I’m foodie, so I go to all the restaurants. You mainly see men.

Zahra Khan: You see men, right? Yeah, absolutely right.

Pearl Lam: And how do you overcome this barrier and how do you challenge the norm?

Zahra Khan: So I think there was a lot of talent as well, which I see also, you know, in pakistani women, but because they’re just cooking at home out of necessity, out of need, you know, they don’t get to explore this. But I think in my case, I was lucky that I got one. The opportunity to gain that confidence by going to culinary school to, you know, further polish my skills and to get that confidence in just cooking just about anything, you know, you’ll put a cut of meat in front of me. I know how to use the knife properly. So I think that’s what’s lacking because there’s no resources in Pakistan. So I think that is what opened my eyes to the basics that, okay, there’s a certain way to hold a knife which you just wouldn’t think about. There’s a certain way to cut a vegetable. So it’s things from the basics that I learned going up to fine dining standards. And I think that is something that there needs to be more awareness as well, and opportunities for women who are talented and for women who want to explore this as a career. And so my challenges, obviously were, because everything was so new, I had never heard of these things and just. It was very interesting to me. It was a lot of learning for me as well. Obviously, it was challenging because it is a male dominated industry. Working in the kitchens. I’ve been surrounded. I’ve worked in kitchens where I’ve been surrounded by 20 men and they would be swearing and it’s not a very pleasant environment. And I’m short as well. I’m quite petite, so I remember it being very disturbing. And, you know, I used to go home and cry because it was just intense and the pressure of it. And I realised this is too much. And then when I went on to open my own restaurant, I said, this is not what I want my kitchen to look like. I want women to work in this kitchen and I want them to feel comfortable and I don’t want this pressure and I don’t want this stressful environment. It shouldn’t be like that, you know? So this was my vision of doing Feya differently.

Pearl Lam: And so you enjoy being said, yes, chef, no, chef, I do this, chef.

Zahra Khan: Yeah, yeah. Because it’s very stressful. I mean, if you’ve been behind the scenes in a busy restaurant kitchen, yeah.

Pearl Lam: Because the orders, you have to fulfil the orders. So I read that your 75% of your staff are all female.

Zahra Khan: I mean, the focus has always been around a 75% female workforce. And the diversity across our team, you know, it’s apparent we’ve got people from all sorts of walks of life. When I first opened Feya, I was a young mother myself. My daughter was only five months old, and then I was launching this side by side. And I interestingly hired a lot of mothers. And just because, you know, you just realise there’s like this empathy as well. And then once you’re in that position. But a lot of mothers who were looking for work, who had no experience, and this is where I think I. I challenged myself. But it’s also one of the biggest challenge I faced was employing staff that didn’t have that experience. And then I was having to train them at the same time. And then as a new business, you know, these were the initial struggles, but for me, it came from a place that I wanted to give them the opportunities to step up. I wanted to give single mothers and, you know, these young mothers that platform. And that is how it came about. Sort of always been the vision from when I had the one location, which had only eight staff, to now having 50 staff. You know, it’s always been about. Not about the experience. I will not look at a CV and think, okay, you have experience. I want you, you know, I will look at the person and I will say, okay, I can, you know, give them the platform.

Pearl Lam: This is so Asian. I look at your face, I look at how you move, and I will employ you not looking at the CV. That’s great. And so any of your staff now becomes your right hand, becomes your shoe chef? Any of these?

Zahra Khan: Yes, yes. Lots of growth. So we’ve had staff. Some of them have been with us since we started Feya in 2018 when we just had the one location. We’ve had people join us as KP’s and move their way up to the chef’s level, even the management level, we have, people start from barista level to become general manager. So there’s been lots of opportunities because as a company, we have grown, and a lot of the staff, they have grown with us.

Pearl Lam: And also I read that you also have a charity.

Zahra Khan: The Feya Cares initiative was, you know, that is our charity initiative. And then we work alongside other charities. For example, British Art Foundation. We work with Refuge, which is a charity for shelter of women and children. So we do partner with multiple charities along the way and see how we can contribute and give back to society.

Pearl Lam: I think it’s really interesting for a Pakistani lady who found, who has, I mean, who founded this charity and to address gender equality.

Zahra Khan: I mean, I feel like we are trying as a small business to do our part. But on the bigger scheme of things, you know, there’s a lot of businesses that still, you know, unfortunately do not pay women. I mean, even look at, you know, some big industries, women are not making enough money. And there’s always this glass ceiling for women, and there’s always so many limitations. Like women are going to go on and have kids and they’re going to have career breaks, and all of that exists. So it’s much harder for a woman to make her way up the gender pay gap. Obviously, we’re trying as a very small business on a very small scale. How we can contribute is by making sure that we are not discriminating in the gender pay. So regardless of if you’re male or female, that’s not a criteria for us to decide how much money you make. And it’s unfortunate, because for women, it’s not easy. The glass ceiling exists for women in any career path. There’s all these expectations from women, like taking care of the home, motherhood. A career break is on the cards. And I feel like all of that in any industry will hold a woman back, even. Even though I feel like women can achieve so much higher heights and they’re capable of so much more. But I feel like the stigma that exists in our society is sort of holding them back from all of this. And I hope that other companies and other industries do step up and there shouldn’t be this discrimination in the gender pay. And that’s just one of the initiatives that really appeal to us as a business.

Pearl Lam: But it’s really great that you’re starting that. And tell me, why is the cafe.

Zahra Khan: So it’s actually named after my daughter, Sophia. So she was born, I think, around the same time that we finally got the first site for Feya. After two years of searching, pitching our concepts, and back in 2017, 2018, the market was very saturated. The hospitality industry was booming. You wouldn’t find any empty sites in the prime locations. And it was a very difficult time to just, you know, start a new concept and launch yourself and establish yourself. And then any landlords that we were pitching this concept to were like, what’s your background? But what’s your experience? What are you bringing? How are you going to afford to rent this? So we had to pay a hefty deposit a year and a half rent upfront just to secure a site. Even then, we couldn’t find sites. So this site just came about right as I gave birth, and then it just, you know, she was the lucky charm, and it’s named after her.

Pearl Lam: So how. I mean, this is a family business, right? But then how does your husband get involved with this? What is his position?

Zahra Khan: So he’s actually an investment banker. That’s his background. So he’s been in the financial industry, and he has always inspired and motivated and pushed me towards this, to pursue this as a career, which, you know, I’ve been really lucky to have a family that has actually seen this talent or my passion and actually encouraged it. So I think he was the one person that really pushed me and said, you know, we’ll do it together and I’ll do it with you.

Pearl Lam: When you say that he’s doing it with you, what do you mean in that sense?

Zahra Khan: So he is actually helping out with the business as well because he, you know, just to execute, just to get everything. It hasn’t been easy. And, you know, especially because we had no experience in London. Everything was new. So I think we navigated together, and obviously, a lot of it is just my contribution and it’s my vision, and he doesn’t know how to cook, and, you know, so a lot of that has been my input.

Pearl Lam: But his support is.

Zahra Khan: But, yes, but his support has been, you know, it’s the biggest factor that has me going, you know, even now.

Pearl Lam: So what does he think about this gender inequality that you’re addressing?

Zahra Khan: Yeah, he’s 100% very supportive of this as well. And, you know, and that is something that we are trying to do together because he’s in agreement, you know, in alignment with this as well.

Pearl Lam: You are from Pakistan and you’re born in Pakistan, and then you moved to Canada. Then I was thinking that your parents wanted you to study medicine. But I thought in Pakistan, most of the parents, they are very traditional.

Zahra Khan: No, you’re right. In general, you know, most parents, if you look, I think it’s changing now that they’re becoming more aware because a a lot of women do want to pursue higher education. You know, they go on to become doctors, dentists, lawyers. You know, all sorts of career paths for women are opening up now. And you write in Pakistan? In Pakistan. And that is the change that I’ve seen, you know, in my parent’s generation as well. So my mom is a doctor and my dad was an engineer. So for them, it was important.

Pearl Lam: Were they arranged marriage?

Zahra Khan: Yes, they were.

Pearl Lam: So was your marriage arranged?

Zahra Khan: It wasn’t, no.

Pearl Lam: So it’s pretty amazing because I was actually told even in India today, most marriages are arranged, and Pakistan is even more traditional and more conservative. And then India, to have you, the wish to have you to become a doctor must be because of your mother.

Zahra Khan: Yes, that’s right.

Pearl Lam: And how was your growing up in Pakistan like? So, growing up having your mother being a professional as well?

Zahra Khan: Yes. Yeah, I think that really helped because it wasn’t the traditional set up that you would see, you know, where the mothers were mostly homemakers and they would stay at home, and only the males, you know, were working. And women, it was frowned upon, you know, if you go back a few generations, then. Traditionally, women weren’t allowed to work. You know, they were meant to stay at home. You know, they were expected to just take care of the kids, you know, Cook. And that was sort of the role. But I think what we’ve seen is that shift and that change now, which I have seen my mother do. So when I grew up, I think my mother lived abroad most of her life, really.

Pearl Lam:  Was she educated abroad?

Zahra Khan: She was educated abroad as well. She lived in Paris, she lived in London, she lived in Brunei because my grandfather was in the army. So because of that, they travelled around a lot and I think that’s how it changed. Also, my mom, so my grandfather, he’s got three girls, so there were three daughters, so all three of them went on to, you know, pursue their careers. And that’s where my mom, you know, sort of said that, you know, I want you to. It would be nice if you could follow in my footsteps and become a doctor as well.

Pearl Lam: And that wasn’t really typical Pakistanis. Right?

Zahra Khan: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: And then when you went to Canada, was there a big change from living inPakistan and then moving to Canada?

Zahra Khan: Definitely, definitely. I was a teenager when I moved and so, you know, you have a good idea about your culture, about society, so I had a good understanding. But. But still, when you move to a foreign country and, you know, everything is new to you, of course, I had, interestingly, always studied in an all girls school as well. So when I moved to Canada, it was like a co ed school. So that, for me was one of the biggest. That was one of the biggest changes because since I was three years old, I was surrounded by girls, even though I grew up with two brothers. But still, that part school was, you know, it took a bit of settling in because I hadn’t changed school since I was three. I was in the same school.

Pearl Lam: How amazing.

Zahra Khan: So it was a big change, but it was good that, you know, my family, we all moved together, so we immigrated to Canada and that was for the universities and the better education, and that’s a decision that my parents took to give us a better life. So it was a big sacrifice, you know, on their part. Once you become a parent and a mother, you know, myself, I’ve understood, you know, the sacrifices that they’ve had to make.

Pearl Lam: Which year did you stop from studying medicine? Year two or year three?

Zahra Khan: So I basically, in my university, I was doing pre medical, so I have a bachelor of science and then a psychology.

Pearl Lam: You must have very high grades to do medicine.

Zahra Khan: So, I mean, I finished my diploma, I graduated I didn’t.

Pearl Lam: You graduated.

Zahra Khan: I didn’t live in midway. Yeah.

Pearl Lam: Wow.

Zahra Khan: So this is what my mom said to me. She said, you know, you do whatever you want to do. I want you to at least have this degree to just as a, you know, something to fall back on. At least you have security, you know, like a foundation. And because I’d always studied sciences, even when I moved to Canada, and I wanted to do, because that’s when I realised there’s so many options here, like in Pakistan, it was literally like, you become a lawyer, a doctor, or, you know, it’s very limited. We’re an engineer, which, you know, all.

Pearl Lam: Asian parents, they all want you to have this profession all the time.

Zahra Khan: Yeah, yeah. And then I moved to Canada and there’s people doing all sorts of different things. I remember there was a woodwork workshop. There used to be a cooking one, there was a beauty one, and there was all sorts of different, like, after school clubs and activities, which I hadn’t heard of in Pakistan. So that’s when I actually started exploring because I had been baking since I was eight years old, just as a hobby. I just used to love baking, decorating cakes, making cupcakes.

Pearl Lam: You know, I like cooking, but baking takes a lot of patience. It is very different than Chinese cooking. You can do quite fast. It’s just the preparation. So you must be a very patient person.

Zahra Khan: True. I think I am, and you’re right. Comes from baking at an early age, because it is a. It is. It is about patience, you know?

Pearl Lam: And so when do you tell your parents you wanted to study culinary?

Zahra Khan: So I think along the way, like, when it came to picking subjects from my o levels, you know, we had this conversation where I said, I want to take the arts because I always used to paint as well. So I had this interest in painting and in baking. And when I approached the subject with them, it was just like, how can you even think about arts, you know, like, you’re talking to us and you want to do.

Pearl Lam: Absolutely. I have.

Zahra Khan: That is not a career, you know, this is what I was told, and I still remember their words. That is something you can do as a hobby, but that is not something you study. You need to study something substantial, you know? And for me, that was just. It was very disheartening, you know? And so I said, okay, I’ll pick the science subjects and I’ll do that. And then it came to moving to Canada and picking my subjects there. And again, I had no idea about anything else. You know, what is business, what is some. So, again, I chose what I knew. And, you know, then I just got pushed into university and I thought, okay, I’ll do this. I’ll see how it is. And then, you know, maybe I did enjoy it. It’s not that I didn’t, but it was just really long. It was in Canada. It was even longer to become a doctor than it would have been in Pakistan because it’s almost ten years until, you know, you do your residency and all of that. And by the time I graduated, I was like, I just want to be working and doing something. Like, I just miss creating things. You know, I think I’m a very craftsy person as well, and so I.

Pearl Lam: Want to be very creative.

Zahra Khan: I want to be doing things with my hands. So when I was in university, I actually started my business of cakes. And this was just on the side. I was literally pulling all nighters, finishing wedding cakes, doing birthday cakes.

Pearl Lam: How wonderful.

Zahra Khan: And I think that’s when I really explored this opportunity, and it’s also what kept me sane and, you know, got me through the university years because it was really tough studying those science subjects, just getting through that, knowing that I’m not just gonna exit midway because I’m the kind of person, if I get myself into something, I need to see it through. And so I believed in that. And I said, okay, once I do this, I’ll be in a better position to go up to my parents and say, here, I’ve done it, but now let me do what I’m really passionate about.

Pearl Lam: And when you told them about your dreams, were they shocked?

Zahra Khan: A little bit, yes. Because when I. I mean, they never thought of baking as something that I could make a career out of, as something that would.

Pearl Lam: Asian parents are.

Zahra Khan: Yeah, that something that would give me that financial independence, I think they didn’t think that, you know, I could scale it up to that level. And it was just something that I could do from home and I could bake. And it was just like a sad

Pearl Lam: How do you persuade them to send you to London and then. And then to allow you to go to school?

Zahra Khan: That was an uphill battle. And I’ll be honest, it took almost a year after I graduated, and I just took the year off. I travelled a little bit. I just, you know, with my friends. I just took some time to explore. And that’s when I realised, you know, this is what I want to do and I just want to move. I visited London and I just fell in love with the city and I said, this is where I want to come. I want to move.

Pearl Lam: Your parents are not typical Pakistani parents.

Zahra Khan: I feel like they are and then they’re not.

Pearl Lam: But you allowing you to travel by yourself after that and not. And not having a not getting married, that is not typical

Zahra Khan: Yeah.

Pearl Lam: And so I consider you are very lucky and to have such liberal parents and when you’re here. And then you decided.

Zahra Khan: Yeah, and then I had actually, I was going to study in Canada for culinary school, and I had, you know, looked up some schools and I had actually agreed with one school that, you know, that’s where I was going to go. And then when I just came to London, I fell in love with the city. And I think it took three months for me to find the school at Taunton, which was owned by Gordon Ramsay. I just found the school. I did all the paperwork. Within three months, I had my visa, and I was moving to London, and it just came out of nowhere, you know, but I just feel like it’s where I was meant to be and this was meant to happen, and it just worked out so beautifully.

Pearl Lam: So when you opened the restaurant, and I believe that you must be back backing by your parents, you know, I.

Zahra Khan: Think it was also very scary because they were financially backing, you know, this dream, and at the same time, they just weren’t sure, you know, because restaurant industry is, I think, one of the highest failure rates, of course, because a lot of restaurants, just especially as a new concept, it’s different if you’re bringing in a franchise or, you know, this was a complete new concept that was just in my head, and I put it down on paper. I came up with a business plan, and I think London was one of the most challenging markets as well. So it wasn’t easy to set something up in London with no experience, having been just lived a few months in the city as well. So I think it was a big leap of faith, and I am lucky, like you say, that my parents had that faith and trust in me, and they just let me explore this opportunity.

Pearl Lam: So are you going to open Feya in Pakistan?

Zahra Khan: You know, this question I get asked a lot, but I just feel like it’s not the market for us at.

Pearl Lam: The moment because the gender inequality true in Pakistan is seriously higher than in European countries or in America.

Zahra Khan: That’s true, yeah, because there’s still that conception that, you know, that we were talking about that women will not, you know, families aren’t willing to let their women work, and there’s still families that will do that and they will just say, okay, you know, our daughter is going to study maybe to a certain level, but she’s not going to work a day in her life. She’s going to get married. And, you know, so that is still the conception and that is what we see around us. And I think it will take probably a few generations to shake that out.

Pearl Lam: So what sort of new world are you expecting that youre a daughter will grow up in?

Zahra Khan: So for my daughters, obviously I want to give them a very different lifestyle to what I had because primarily I grew up in Pakistan and there were many challenges there. You know, as a woman that you face growing up in, you know, there’s this disparity as well between boys can do this and girls cannot. But when I’m raising, I’ve got three daughters now, so when I’m raising them, you know, it’s completely different. I want them to explore their opportunities. I don’t want to limit them by saying, you know, you can only become a doctor or a lawyer or have you, you know, it’s like whatever they want to do. So even at this stage, when they’re young, you know, they enjoy painting and arts. I’m just letting them explore and see what they’re good at and not limiting them in any way. And I just want to give them, you know, a better life than my parents gave me. And growing up in London. Yes. And, you know, that is the motivation for me to do well, to aspire to do better in my life is to give them a better life.

Pearl Lam: Congratulations, Zara. Thank you for joining us today. It’s been a great pleasure to meet you. And next week I shall come to your fair.

Zahra Khan: Definitely. I look forward to it. Thank you for having me. It’s been lovely.