Pearl Lam (林明珠): For years, if you want to understand the power in Hong Kong, you did not go to a boardroom. You went to a room with music behind the velvet rope. Social hierarchies were rehearsed, money performed. Status was signaled. Influence became visible. People decided who matters, who belongs, who is interesting, and who is influential. Cities are not defined just by institutions. They are defined by where people, where social energy gathers. Sometimes these places are salons, sometimes they are private clubs. But sometimes they are simply a room with music. Today, I’m sitting here with Gilbert Yeung, founder of Dragon-i, a man who built one of Hong Kong’s most powerful rooms, creating one of the most influential social ecosystems. This is not about parties. This is about access, power, and identity. And what role do these informal places play in shaping the culture of a city? And what happened to that ecosystem when a city itself begins to change? I am Pearl Lam. This is The Pearl Lam Podcast. Hi, Gilbert!

Gilbert Yeung: Hello

Pearl Lam (林明珠): I’ve known you for so many years. You are now a dedicated father, an amazing husband, and I just want to know, when did it—I mean, when did you actually stop wanting to become the center of the room? And when did you decide that something mattered more than being the room? And also, was there a single moment or defining moment that turned you?

Gilbert Yeung: First of all, I’d like to thank you, Pearl, for inviting me to come on your podcast. I’m a fan of your podcast. I watch it regularly. And also, you are a gift for Hong Kong, a mentor for me and many others, younger generation. We just wish that you would spend more time here. And Hong Kong really wants you to spend more time here.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Thank you.

Gilbert Yeung: Thank you for having me.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Let’s look back. Let’s talk about Dragon-i. When you first opened Dragon-i, were you selling nightlife or were you selling proximity to power?

Gilbert Yeung: Well, we started Dragon-i in 2002. That’s almost 25 years ago. And at that time, the Hong Kong nightlife was not that sophisticated yet. And I used to travel a lot to New York, London, Tokyo, everywhere. And I was a bit of a party animal.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):I know, I know.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah, yeah. And I just noticed that Hong Kong needed a hub. Like what we created a hub that can accommodate local elite and international elite travellers. And it’s a hub to be able to entertain and accommodate all walks of life. I was very lucky when I was young. I was brought up in Hong Kong until I was 13. So, I went to the West. I went to boarding school in England and then I went to university in Toronto, technically. Technically, yeah. So, Toronto is very influenced by New York because we are just next door.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):Yeah, one hour away.

Gilbert Yeung: Yes. And we were very influenced with the music culture in New York. House music just started in 1986 and I was there. And that’s when I started to cultivate my own music taste. And that was a big part of my life. And street culture, skateboarding, BMX, breakdancing, DJing. And I really like design, sound system, nightlife, going out. It was just an opportunity arrived in my life at that time that I’m still thankful for that. So, I managed to create this hub. And I blend the Western culture and I’m quite deep rooted as a Chinese person and Hong Kong person. So, I understand the local culture, Hong Kong culture. I also understand very much, the Chinese culture. And so we blend the West with the East.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): So were you actually selling the nightlife that they never have? Because it’s a very different nightlife. When you came here, you. You actually put design, you put everything in. But did you realize that you are actually creating a power structure?

Gilbert Yeung: I didn’t know. I didn’t know. I was just improvising.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Okay, so my next question is that now you look back, the Dragon-i reflects the Hong Kong power structure or created it. Or was it a mirror? Or was it an aspiration, what a city wanted to be?

Gilbert Yeung: Well, we definitely, humbly speaking, we definitely play a small part on this for Hong Kong. And like I said, Hong Kong needed a place like this. So, we were just.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): It was an instant success when you open.

Gilbert Yeung: We were just very lucky. We were at the right place at the right time and doing something that we really love doing.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): What makes you want to be inside the Dragon-i? How do you choose the people?

Gilbert Yeung: Well, I don’t. The door bitches.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):The door bitches.

Gilbert Yeung: Okay.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): How does the door bitches going to identify?

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah, but I’ll. You know. And in the 90s, having an obnoxious door policy was very sexy, of course. And cool.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Of course.

Gilbert Yeung: People like to be turned away.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):No, I. No, people like to be accepted because they feel privileged.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah. Well, and they are also.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): And they like to see people being turned away.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):And makes them feel even more important.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah. But I don’t think that’s the new, the new format. Yeah, the new format anymore. People would like to feel inclusive and it’s not even sexy or cool to have that kind of policy. But at that time, and it was, we wanted, we always wanted a diverse guest to come into Dragon-i, from local punters, local elites, to local expats, bankers and international travelers. Yes. We never had a dress code. We always have a look code.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Look code. What sort of look were you expecting?

Gilbert Yeung: Well, look code.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): So obviously you won’t allow people who put on a pair of shorts and come in. You kick them out.

Gilbert Yeung: That’s a good, that’s a good topic. You know, And I still get my phone ringing once. Well, in the summer a lot when some of my friends call me at 1:00am, like, Gilbert, I can’t get into your place. The door turned me away. I’m like, why? You know, he said. So, I said, pass me to the, to the door team. So, I spoke to the door and they’re like, oh, why are you turning them away? Because he’s wearing shorts and flip-flops. Oh, of course.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): This is not Singapore.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah. So, you know, Hong Kong has always that, I’m who, I’m this, I’m this, you don’t know who I am. That kind of thing. Yes. So, we always try to enforce an identity is like, hey,

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Just make an effort!

Gilbert Yeung: Just relax. Okay. Just come and have fun and just don’t be too heavy on your shoulder and come in and have that kind of attitude.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): For decades, Hong Kong has been following luxury culture from New York, London and Paris. So, did you import Western cool or created Asian cool? And what does cool mean today in Hong Kong and who defines it?

Gilbert Yeung: Okay. Of course, Hong Kong has always followed a lot of the western culture. New York, London, Paris, especially America with music and movies and London with music as well. But don’t forget, also Hong Kong always embrace Japanese culture as well, with fashion, street culture, the food, and now Korean.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yes.

Gilbert Yeung: It’s massive.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): K-culture.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah. Even how the boys dress, the pale face, the makeup. Hong Kong has always followed that. But it’s a unity. We also have influence with the west too, with mahjong, I heard in the west now.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah, right now it’s a trend.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah. And is it cultivating your mental mind, how to manage your lives, your finance, when to defend, when to attack, when to attack. I think it’s very interesting. But Hong Kong definitely has our own identity now. And Hong Kong people of all generations know our own cool. But the own cool now in Hong Kong, I see that it’s almost aligned with the West. Happiness is not just about the surface. It’s not about superficial things. It’s not buying a, you know, $50,000 handbag or $30,000 branded leather jacket is about wellness.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah, wellness!

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah, it’s about travelling. It’s not about just going to Ibiza or Mykonos and getting a bling bling table. You know, I see that young people starting to go to Egypt, starting to go to Tibet, Bhutan. And people are – They find that’s cool. Having a happy life, wellness and taking care of yourself and being a good person. Speak from your heart, humble, being grounded. Admit to your mistakes and apologize. And that’s something I’m also learning as well. I think that that is the current value of the new cool.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Okay, so let’s continue with that. Okay. Because Hong Kong, the whole identities are about a place which is the East meeting the West, the meeting point. But the meeting point is a venue, is a venue where it’s all about other people’s culture. So do you think that Hong Kong has its own culture, its own taste, its own idea, rather than it was borrowing from London, New York and today mainland. Mainland, and also, you know, today there’s many Western expats who continue leaving Hong Kong. Of course, now people are saying they return. So, when they leave, what is left for Hong Kong to call its own culture? What is Hong Kong’s own culture?

Gilbert Yeung: Well, Hong Kong definitely has created our own culture. For example, I think for the last few years I see that the young generation have embraced a lot about localism. For example, a lot of parties. We started having canto parties.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Canto parties. Really?

Gilbert Yeung: Yes, yes. It was very big last summer. And I continue to see this local.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):What is the canto party? Can you just tell the audience? Because most of the people who’s watching this is not from Hong Kong. Explain what is a canto party?

Gilbert Yeung: You see young people starting to go to parties or nightclubs or events. Having young DJs, not older generation DJ that are playing 80s Cantopop music like Joey Yung.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Oh really? Cantopop, wow!

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah, yeah. And, and not just local people. And you know, even Western people go and a lot of different restaurants or different places you see that they brand the brand with Cantonese with Hong Kong neon sign, which is good. And I think Hong Kong.

 Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yes, that’s great.

Gilbert Yeung: That is cool. Yes, that is really cool. Hong Kong finally have to stand up, have the confidence. Yeah, to have the confidence about ourselves rather than just following what’s happening outside of Hong Kong.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):Wow, I’m really happy to hear about that. So next thing I really want to talk about is about your nightclubs. Nightclubs always expose hierarchy brutally. Because you see who is sitting on a table, who is standing outside. You have the power to create visibility. So, in a way, you are actually shaping reputation. Do you actually, I should say, did you actually feel uncomfortable with it during the time when you have a door policy?

Gilbert Yeung: Well, we still have a door policy. And yes.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Did you feel uncomfortable?

Gilbert Yeung: Yes, still today I feel uncomfortable by categorizing people, but that’s part of life. But there’s hierarchy in boarding school. There’s hierarchy in going on a flight. Economy business class, first class. And now pj, right?

Pearl Lam (林明珠):Yes, yes. Now it’s all pj.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah, now they all talk about pj. But that’s part of life. Yes, it does bother me a bit because I do like to have our place, to be able to have all walks of life and a diverse clientele. We do have punters that come into our place for 20 years. They don’t spend any money. They get free drinks from us. We treat them like a family. We have high spender that come to our place, they will spend a certain amount of money and the next day they will come for Coca Cola. It’s fine. And that’s always our DNA to be. As soon as you are in our venue, you are our guest, you are our family. And I think that’s the way to go.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Okay, so is glamour a theatre of insecurity? And also, thus wealthy people behave differently when the lights go down. You know, when I ask you, these questions is like glamour. I love glamour. So. So it’s really a point of discussion because people are thinking very negative about glamour. But so, what if it is a theatre of insecurity?

Gilbert Yeung: Well, that’s good. I was just gonna say you also embrace.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): I love. Yes, I love glamour.

Gilbert Yeung: Yes, me too. You brought up in the glamorous world. You are still in the glamorous world. Me too. But what defines glamour? And I think glamour,it’s not just about having a big yacht or having a huge house that have a swimming pool that you never use. One of my uncles said to me a few years back, he said, you know, I know all these tycoons and you know, they have their own planes and their own this and own that. And if I were them, if I have my own plane, I. I would go into the cockpit and talk to the pilot and touch the buttons. But a lot of tycoons, they just go onto the plane and put the mask on and go to sleep, go on the yacht and just sit there. And some of them even have air conditioned, many of them, actually, and not being outside. So, I think glamour is about. For me, it’s about buying a piece of art that you like and not asking about price. Buying a piece of vinyl that you like and treating yourself on a luxury holiday in a nice hotel.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): So you don’t think that glamour is a defense for people who are insecure.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah. So, we do have. Well, part of our game plan is to have people and our guests and our clientele to come in and have their mask off a little bit and not having the mask on because old school nightclubbing is having another mask on and start posing and be flashy. But we don’t really encourage that kind of culture. And yes, insecurity, especially with wealthy men, they do have that. We notice that, but that’s it.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):But I think the most glamorous people people are drag queens.

Gilbert Yeung: Really? Yes.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): I love drag queens.

Gilbert Yeung: You know, so many of them.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): I wish I knew all of them, but I don’t.

Gilbert Yeung: It’s always in my wish list to have a drag queen become our door bitch.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Oh, yeah. It would be great if you could. It will be wonderful.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Okay. You know, people come to places like Dragon-i. Do you think that they want to be seen, seen or they want to be someone? Because nightlife nightclubs always provide a stage for people to perform a different version of themselves. They want to perform to be someone that they are not at all, but they, you know, it’s someone that they wanted to be, but not the person they are. So, have you actually seen people try on identities in the room?

Gilbert Yeung: Oh, well, we see that every night. We touch all walks of life. Like I said, people come in, we have guests come in with extra mask on or a different mask on. We still have this philosophy, having a good connection with our guests. I think nightclubbing or going to a night venue is about lifestyle. I think it will be the one of the last industries that will stay alive without any AI or robot.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah.

Gilbert Yeung: Because going out, it’s all about connection. Connection with our team from when you arrive until you leave. Connection with other people. So, this is something that we are aware of. So, we always try to cultivate our team to have a very good value on having a connection with our guests.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): So you don’t mind if you see someone coming in and then they behave very differently than they were in the daytime or when.

Gilbert Yeung: Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. We are a place that for.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Everybody to become who they want to be.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah. And let go and dance and connect, listen to music. Of course, we prefer people not playing with their phones and taking videos of the DJs. When we have big DJs or big events, it’s in fact within the global DJ industry. I saw a DJ Solomun, when he had a breakdown. When the song picked up again, he actually grabbed an audience phone and put it on the side and then just like, come on, dance to the music. Yes. Why do we have the phone on? We missed out so much when we go out.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Exactly.

Gilbert Yeung: And when we were young, you know, when we used to go out, if you really think about it, we just have to stand there and dance and smoke cigarettes, of course. And drink and try to look cool or look at girls and girls try to pose. And that was the authentic way of going out. So now if you go out to a restaurant and go out to a bar, you see so many people playing with their phone. Of course, it is what it is.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):And sometimes you go to dinners, and you see the next-door table, they don’t talk to each other. They were just on their phones most of the time. Let’s talk about COVID. COVID destroyed nightclubs globally. This crisis actually makes you look at Hong Kong. Look at. I mean, you feel how fragile Hong Kong really was. Did you feel that? Because COVID in Hong Kong is very different. They close. You told me they closed for how many years? Two years, right?

Gilbert Yeung: Yes, yes. We were kind of shut down and semi shut down. Shut down and semi shut down for on and off two years.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): And was it killing your business, like all over the world?

Gilbert Yeung: It really killed us. The two industries that suffered the most, I think globally, bars and travelling. Yes. Hong Kong took, I think the biggest hit. Hong Kong and China, of course, because.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):They closed for so long.

Gilbert Yeung: Yes. And even when we reopen, well, when the world reopened, we were still.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah, you closed. Yeah.

Gilbert Yeung: We were the last country to be open.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah. I was away from. For very long time.

Gilbert Yeung: You’re very lucky.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah, one and a half years.

Gilbert Yeung: But in a way, I am a bit grateful that I get to see that harshness and that painfulness to become part of my story in my career and my life.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Awakening.

Gilbert Yeung: Yes, my awakening. Yeah. So it was painful. It was long. It just keep dragging on and it just changed. People’s lifestyles globally have shifted and changed. It was very painful. And also you were saying that we only noticed how fragile Hong Kong was because Hong Kong was in such a bubble and honeymoon period for 30 years.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah. Because it started from the protests, which is 2019, and then it went into. And then it went into the COVID Yes.

Gilbert Yeung: Property was going crazy, stock market. And we benefit especially from 2008, 2009 to 2018. Like you said, 2019 was the social unrest. Yeah. Issue. But for that 10 years, Hong Kong was one of the best vibrant city in the world. From 2008 to 2018, every day, restaurant was packed, the street was packed. So many expats wanted to come to Hong Kong just to experience that vibrancy.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah. And the tourists as well. There’s so many tourists from the west coming.

Gilbert Yeung: Yes. But since the bubble burst and then Hong Kong was caught off guard. And while we were in the bubble, the whole. Well, the world has evolved. Especially Dubai.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah.

Gilbert Yeung: You never know.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Really, you never know.

Gilbert Yeung: Yes. And we realized, wow, Dubai have already gone way ahead of us. Also Korea,

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Singapore.

Gilbert Yeung: Singapore. I’m always a big, huge fan of Singapore since I was going there in the 90s. I think Singapore for what they are, they have today, it’s not by luck how they create from a little village to what they are right now.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): It’s pretty amazing. It is amazing.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah. With formula one, with everything else. So. Yes. But Hong Kong.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Hong Kong was arrogant. That’s why. Yeah. And now. And now I think we go back to the basic. We know that we need to push, we need to be there.

Gilbert Yeung: Yes. Well, like I said, Hong Kong was caught completely off guard for about a year or two. And now we have to be creative. We have to be creative and find our own identity.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):You know, during COVID, many Western expats has left. Even now, after the COVID there’s much less tourists from abroad. In my industry is we have no more American. I mean, very few American collectors, museum trustees coming to Hong Kong. So I don’t know whether you see this absence in your room. In your room. And do you still think that Hong Kong is a global capital, or do you think that Hong Kong has transformed to a regional capital?

Gilbert Yeung: Well, as a Hong Kong resident that I live here, especially for the last five, six years, dreadful years. And a small business operator, of course, we’ve seen a scary big exodus of people moving out. Every week there’s a farewell party, sometimes two.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): It’s very sad.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah, it’s very sad to see that. And we can see even the last frontier of our friends. They’re Like Gilbert, we’re out. But it’s encouraging. For the last few months, Hong Kong suddenly, like you said, we see a bit of optimism.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Huge optimism actually. I think it’s changed a lot. Even, you know, FT just came out with a press saying that Hong Kong is having more, more wealth, you know, private wealth than Switzerland.

Gilbert Yeung: Yes.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yeah. So would you consider that we are still. Hong Kong is still a global capital or has it really become a regional capital?

Gilbert Yeung: We completely lost our identity for the last few years. But we, like I said, Hong Kong is in a transitional period. And slowly but smoothly we see results that we are finding our own way.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):But you know that you also change the whole concept of Dragon-i to fit and to adapt to the local. I mean the local culture. Now, as we know, there’s more and more Chinese coming in. So you are changing your Dragon-i, your audience, your visitors now is changing from the western aspect to Chinese. Right?

Gilbert Yeung: Well, the reinvention, we’ve been planning this for almost 10 years because we’re 20 years. Yes. I love creating. We did work with a few designers over the years to change the look and change the. The concept. Not to change, to evolve.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):I mean, when you say evolve, is it because your clientele has changed?

Gilbert Yeung: No, simply I just like creating, I like designing. I love working with professional. I think it’s so sexy to work with really top professional that how they respond, how they work with you. I get really turned on by working with super professional people. So, we almost did our renovation right before COVID and lucky we didn’t. But after COVID in 2024-25, I think global people starting to settle down and stabilize and knowing what is the new normal, how they want to live their new normal life. We are very lucky that we noticed that. So, we also wanted to do something that we are interested in introducing, which is always music and as you can see, vinyl. That’s my personal collection. I think generation right now, in all generations, they like the real deal. So, we do have fireside chats as well. And it’s non-commercial. I just also invited you to come and do this chat. I think people like to like narratives, storytelling.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Yes.

Gilbert Yeung: Instead of just going to Dragon-i, drink and get drunk and then next day have a hangover and then next week come back again. We want to introduce and package a new sexy product that is that have narratives with our sound system, with our speakers, with our new design, lighting. I’m always interested in lighting, architectural lighting, details and engagement, having a good content, creating good programming. We play jazz now from 6 to 8. Really? Yes. Yes. And we’re going to have a Latin jazz band playing this Friday.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): Amazing.

Gilbert Yeung: Hong Kong is totally in a different business model.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):I mean, Hong Kong is definitely different than 20 years ago. Can you then talk about, I mean, what you feel about the difference and what is what. What. what makes Hong Kong evolve?

Gilbert Yeung: Because we got the. The bubble has burst. People become humbler, more modest.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):Yes.

Gilbert Yeung: Yeah. People become humbler. People knew. Starting to awaken and admit that we were just very lucky. We were just on a honeymoon for 30 years. And the wealth that we made, it was just with your own property and with a lot of speculation of wealth. And many people got wiped out.

Pearl Lam (林明珠): We often talk about cultural power in terms of museum biennials and art fairs. But culture is not just curated. It’s rehearsed in a room where excess is negotiated, confidence is tested, and identity performs itself. The white cube records culture, but the room with music sometimes creates it. For decades, Dragon-i wasn’t just a nightclub. It was where Hong Kong worked out who it wanted to be, who belongs, who matters, who counted as glamorous. Look at the people in the room. And you were looking at the city itself, which is why the real question is not whether Hong Kong is richer than it was 20 years ago, but whether it can still create the room where people collide without agenda and something unexpected is able to happen. A city builds institutions to be remembered, but they need rooms to stay alive. So, the question for Hong Kong is not whether it can still afford to build institutions, but whether it still can continue to build the rooms. Thank you, Gilbert, for joining us.

Gilbert Yeung: Thank you for having me.

Pearl Lam (林明珠):I am Pearl Lam. This is The Pearl Lam Podcast.